Poll- Would You Make This Trade?

[Lucky Jim]

Okay but what is plus? I mean if Markakis gets to a ball easily gets under it makes the play, not plus. But Adam Dunn has to truck and make a diving catch even though , in theory, it would be the same ball is Adam Dunn plus?

Did you read the description I quoted? It doesn't appear you did.

Video scouts at bis review video of every play of every major league game and record detailed information on each play, such as the location of each batted ball, the speed, the type of hit, etc. Using this in-depth data, we’re able to figure out how each player compares to his peers at his position. How often does derek jeter field that softly batted ball located 20 feet to the right of the normal shortstop position, for example, compared to all other major league shortstops?

A player gets credit (a "plus" number) if he makes a play that at least one other player at his position missed during the season, and he loses credit (a "minus" number) if he misses a play that at least one player made. The size of the credit is directly related to how often players make the play. Each play is looked at individually, and a score is given for each play. Sum up all the plays for each player at his position and you get his total plus/minus for the season.

[SilentJames]

They don't count actual runs against the player. No. That's not how the system works. It has no part in the calculation. Just like someone determining how many runs above average a player is batting doesn't take into account RBIs.

Okay, so is Markakis' rough early season, that coincided with a team rough defense early in the season, hurting his UZR midway through?

It might not be as good as it was last year, but should we expect it to return to something resembling career averages at the end of the season if Nick continues to follow his career averages.

As to Old Five. Come off it, you know what I was going after. The entire team defense has been below expected this year. And most of their team-wide numbers have been thrown off due to a harsh April. Since May the team's defense has been very, very solid - Markakis included.

Which is why I asked if there was a way to isolate May-June to see if Markakis' defense had improved along with the general team defense.

And Old Fan, why don't you go back and respond to my last post with logic and reason - if you can do that then I will continue to respond to you.

Explain to my why Michael Young clutch numbers will get better even though Markakis has better career numbers than Young? Explain that to me.

[Old#5fan]

Okay, so is Markakis' rough early season, that coincided with a team rough defense early in the season, hurting his UZR midway through?

It might not be as good as it was last year, but should we expect it to return to something resembling career averages at the end of the season if Nick continues to follow his career averages.

As to Old Five. Come off it, you know what I was going after. The entire team defense has been below expected this year. And most of their team-wide numbers have been thrown off due to a harsh April. Since May the team's defense has been very, very solid - Markakis included.

Which is why I asked if there was a way to isolate May-June to see if Markakis' defense had improved along with the general team defense.

And Old Fan, why don't you go back and respond to my last post with logic and reason - if you can do that then I will continue to respond to you.

Explain to my why Michael Young clutch numbers will get better even though Markakis has better career numbers than Young? Explain that to me.

What does NM's career numbers have to do with Young? Markakis has never had a season where he hit 416 with RISP has he? Young has been playing a lot longer and has a proven track record in case that isn't obvious to you. Again, rather than take common sense into account you would rather make excuses for him instead of recognizing he has been vastly overated here for a while.

[El Gordo]

We've talked about this before, but what's the effect of positioning on those numbers? None, right?

Is it possible that the O's bench is hurting both Nick and Adam's numbers by an over-aggressive or flawed positioning?

In Nicks cas it's hard to believe it's a result of positioning since his numbers have declined in every category. With AJ he has altered his positioning and it is reflected n his numbers. Early this year he was +1 shalow, -1 medium and -9 deep. Lately he is +2 shallow, +2 medium, and -9 deep for a -5. Last seasomn he was +5 +7 -5 +7.

[SilentJames]

Did you read the description I quoted? It doesn't appear you did.

Yes I did read it. But let me explain.

Markakis makes a routine play. It is neither plus nor minus.

Now Dunn would need to go into a dive to make a play on a ball in the same area. Does he get a plus because he had to go into a dive? Because it is no longer a routine play it is a diving play?

Or is the ball being in the same zone make it all equal and the effort it takes to get to said ball is irrelevant?

[Lucky Jim]

In Nicks cas it's hard to believe it's a result of positioning since his numbers have declined in every category. With AJ he has altered his positioning and it is reflected n his numbers. Early this year he was +1 shalow, -1 medium and -9 deep. Lately he is +2 shallow, +2 medium, and -9 deep for a -5. Last seasomn he was +5 +7 -5 +7.

It appears that both are playing shallower than normal, perhaps in part because Camden suppresses doubles and triples and so there's less risk?

Because this isn't a rate stat, it's entirely possible that that shallow positioning has resulted in inflated deep numbers (a team rotation that is hit hard will have more deep balls) and that this should stabilize as the year goes on, no?

[Lucky Jim]

Yes I did read it. But let me explain.

Markakis makes a routine play. It is neither plus nor minus.

Now Dunn would need to go into a dive to make a play on a ball in the same area. Does he get a plus because he had to go into a dive? Because it is no longer a routine play it is a diving play?

Or is the ball being in the same zone make it all equal and the effort it takes to get to said ball is irrelevant?

It doesn't matter if he dives or not. You don't get a + for diving.

[SilentJames]

What does NM's career numbers have to do with Young? Markakis has never had a season where he hit 416 with RISP has he? Young has been playing a lot longer and has a proven track record in case that isn't obvious to you. Again, rather than take common sense into account you would rather make excuses for him instead of recognizing he has been vastly overated here for a while.

BUNK

Total Bunk. So you are going to pick ONE SEASON. And go off of that? In 2008 he batted .298 and in late and close situations he had an OPS of 579!

See why you can't just pick one season? Looking at their career numbers:

Markakis RISP .296 OPS .886, Late and close .319 OPS .895

Young RISP .327 OPS .845, Late and close .274 OPS .694

So, in close and late siutations WHO HAS THE BETTER TRACK RECORD? Seeing as how you brought it up?

Young has been playing a lot longer and has a proven track record in case that isn't obvious to you.

So look at those numbers again? Who has the better track record in RISP and Late and close situations?

[El Gordo]

It appears that both are playing shallower than normal, perhaps in part because Camden suppresses doubles and triples and so there's less risk?

Because this isn't a rate stat, it's entirely possible that that shallow positioning has resulted in inflated deep numbers (a team rotation that is hit hard will have more deep balls) and that this should stabilize as the year goes on, no?

Perhaps, but I've been tracking both weekly and the deep numbers have held steady for both so far.

[SilentJames]

It doesn't matter if he dives or not. You don't get a + for diving.

Okay, so all catches, no matter the effort taken to get to them are equal.

[Lucky Jim]

Perhaps, but I've been tracking both weekly and the deep numbers have held steady for both so far.

Sure. But that consistency between both could - theoretically - be a problem of positioning.

[El Gordo]

Okay, so all catches, no matter the effort taken to get to them are equal.

If Nick has an easy play at vecter X and Dunn has to dive for it, then Dunn doesn't get to the ball at vecter Y that Nick has to dive for. So it is eventially reflected in the numbers.

[Old#5fan]

BUNK

Total Bunk. So you are going to pick ONE SEASON. And go off of that? In 2008 he batted .298 and in late and close situations he had an OPS of 579!

See why you can't just pick one season? Looking at their career numbers:

Markakis RISP .296 OPS .886, Late and close .319 OPS .895

Young RISP .327 OPS .845, Late and close .274 OPS .694

So, in close and late siutations WHO HAS THE BETTER TRACK RECORD? Seeing as how you brought it up?

So look at those numbers again? Who has the better track record in RISP and Late and close situations?

What is Markakis hitting this year in C&L situations? I can assure you Michael Young has never been that bad. Markakis has numbers equivilent to a NL pitcher hitting so far!:laughlol:

[Lucky Jim]

What is Markakis hitting this year in C&L situations? I can assure you Michael Young has never been that bad. Markakis has numbers equivilent to a NL pitcher hitting so far!:laughlol:

Please stop. We're having an actual baseball conversation here.*

BTW, Young has a .694 OPS in C&L situations for his career. And a .579 OPS last year.

[El Gordo]

Sure. But that consistency between both could - theoretically - be a problem of positioning.

So you think they are being positioned differently this year than last? The OPACY dimensions haven't changed and their positioning last year was pretty effective. If it ain't broke don't fix it, except of course we are dealing with the baseball challenged DT and his gang of coaching clowns, so who knows?:laughlol: