Pirates Trades

[Enjoy Terror]

This is the sum of their last two years of trading away high profile athletes on their team. Do you think it was worth it?

MLB OF Nate McLouth 27yo

MLB OF Xavier Nady 30yo

MLB OF Jason Bay 30yo

MLB OF Nyjer Morgan 28yo

MLB 1B Eric Hinske 31yo

MLB RP Sean Burnett 26yo

MLB RP Damaso Marte 34yo

for:

A OF Eric Fryer 22yo

A RP Casey Erickson 22yo

A+ SP Jeff Locke 21yo (#9 top prospect for Pirates)

A+ SP Bryan Morris 22yo (#8 top prospect for Pirates)

AA OF Gorkys Hernandez 21yo (#5 top prospect for Pirates)

AA OF Jose Tabata 20yo (#3 top prospect for Pirates)

AAA SP Daniel McCutchen 26yo

MLB 3B Andy LaRoche 25yo

MLB OF Lastings Milledge 24yo

MLB OF Brandon Moss 25yo

MLB SP Charlie Morton 25yo

MLB SP Jeff Karstens 26yo

MLB SP Ross Ohlendorf 26yo

MLB RP Joel Hanrahan 27yo

MLB RP Craig Hansen 25yo

(rankings from ScoutingBook.com, seemed most up to date since trades)

[isestrex]

That would only look plausible if their farm system was completely dry. Given that they've been drafting high for close to 2 decades this hardly seems likely but still possible to do with poor scouting and player development. If their system was dry and needed a jolt, then these trades make a little sense... you have to slowly work yourself back to respectability and then work on keeping your home grown talent around.

However, if their farm system was deep before now and they've just traded away their home grown talent for even more farm system, then it means the ownership is lousy and not willing to lock up young talent long term.

The latter is my vote.

[allstar1579]

It's take a few years to get a better read on someone like Tabata & Gorkys Hernandez but I don't see any real significant players coming back in those deals. Andy Laroche is ok. He could become a pretty good player I guess. Makes AM look pretty good, although I guess it would make most GM's look pretty good. Looks like we got a better haul just in one (Bedard) trade.

I saw Hernandez and Tabata up close this past weekend. Hernandez is FAST, can hit the ball to all fields, and has good gap power (he'll hit 5-10HR), he can spray it to opposite field at whim it seems, and his range in the OF is unreal. Can cover from the LF'er to the RF'er on his own. Tabata looks impressive. His bat is legit, good power and speed combo with a strong arm. Looks like he could hit 25-35 HR pretty easily if he can adjust to the outside curve a little better.

[Migrant Redbird]

This is the sum of their last two years of trading away high profile athletes on their team. Do you think it was worth it?

You also have to factor in the payroll. The Pirates traded away players with a total salary of $22.1M in 2009 for players making less than $4.2M this year, plus 6 prospects who are on minor league contracts. Even after factoring in the $400K they're paying towards Hinske's salary, that's a savings of nearly $17.5M this season, before adjusting for how much of that salary the Pirates had already paid. For a cash-strapped team, that's a significant amount of savings, especially as those players' salaries continue to increase through arbitration and/or contracts in lieu of free agency.

Per COTS:

   Player       2009   2010   2011   2012  McLouth 27yo    $2M    $4.5M  $6.5M  $10.65M ($1.25M buyout)Marte 34yo      $3.75M  $4M   $4M    $4M     ($0.25M buyout)Nady 30yo       $6.55MBay 30yo        $7.5MMorgan 28yo     $0.4115MHinske 31yo     $1.5M (Pirates paying Yankees $400K)Burnett 26yo    $0.4085Mfor:McCutchen 26yo  $0.4MLaRoche 25yo    $0.4135MMilledge 24yo   $0.452MMoss 25yo       $0.4145MMorton 25yo     $0.405MKarstens 26yo   $0.4015MOhlendorf 26yo  $0.4135MHanrahan 27yo   $0.42MHansen 25yo     $0.825MFryer 22yo           minor league contractErickson 22yo        minor league contractLocke 21yo           minor league contractMorris 22yo          minor league contractHernandez 21yo       minor league contractTabata 20yo          minor league contract

[scOtt]

Yarr! These pirates be shrewd traders....

Ok, Fiscal Ownership

... ok, they're frickin' CHEAP! "Meet the new Boss. Same as the old Boss."

Couple Pirates fans from work have lamented this very thing. Like MacP denied the other day, the Buckos are little more than a farm team for the powers that be (TPTB) in the rest of the league. Forced to continually trade their young stars away because they can't afford to sign them long term.

If it wasn't for the Reserve Clause, they'd'a' lost Honus Wagner as well!

[Camden_yardbird]

I don't know about the fiscal impacts, I have no doubt that was some of the reason for these trades. But to fully understand these trades you have to understand how bad the farm system looked. It was like someone had thrown darts at a dart board for every draft.

That being said, some of these guys look better and have contributed more than you might think.

Locke and Morris provide young pitching depth which was nonexistent.

Hernandez and Tabata could both be solid to above average major leaguers. Both have looked good since being acquired.

LaRoche has been a more than capable thirdbaseman and is still showing development.

They really didnt give much up for milledge who has huge potential and told the pirates over the AAA allstar break that he would like to go to A to get more AB's. His attitude looks good.

Brandon Moss is also still developing. He also has monster power. Im talking serious Nelson Cruz power. I think he will be a late bloomer, and has been looking better.

Charlie Morton has looked absolutely nasty since being called up. The tools are there to be a dominate pitcher.

Ohlendorf is your classic NL pitcher who can be a decent part of a rotation against weaker lineups. He was an ERA leader early in the season and has really suffered from bad H/R splits. Not to mention he may be the smartest guy in baseball.

Joel Hanrahan for Burnett was a solid trade and he still has the power arm. Kerrigan has worked very well with the other pitchers, I expect the same here.

Hansen was actually pitching really well before he got injured. Both he and Hannrahan could be future closers.

All in all its not an overly impressive bunch but it is very much a group of players with lots of upside. If the coaching can make breakthroughs with even 3-4 of them then these trade will look much better.