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Some things I've heard

Tony-OH

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hoosiers Hangout Grand Counsel

hoosiers

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I don't think it is entirely unusual that a player abstains from baseball between high school and college. It certainly is not the norm, but it is not incredibly unique for a high profile talent.

I think the main issue here though is that we gave up a 2nd round pick in exchange for a 2nd rounder with a year less of development. To me it seems like a misuse of resources. Maybe they were being led to a different conclusion in their discussions with Givens, maybe not. I do not know.

Now, I am not condemning Jordan here as he has done a great deal to improve the lot of our minors . . . but I think this goes down as a miss if he does not get the guy signed. If he is their guy, they better ink him. If he wasn't . . . then why draft him? This is something that is forgivable in later rounds, but a team should be playing for keeps in the top three or four rounds.

And what if next year is a deeper draft and there are fewer compensation picks - meaning the pick could be a higher one? It could go the other way, but I'll wait to see who we draft and sign with that pick before I get upset.

I will grant you that Jordan is well aware of signing bonus requests so it is a bit odd to see this sort of discrepancy. Jordan may be a bit aggravated at the signing game he is being asked to play here. Perhaps, usually at this point in the negotiating game, the prospect and his agent have swallowed a reality pill or two and are just trying to get something above slot. The irony in that strategy might be that Jordan might pay a bit above slot if the agent and prospect were a bit more engaging than the charade here.

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QBsILLEST1 Hangout Veteran Council

QBsILLEST1

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I don't think it is entirely unusual that a player abstains from baseball between high school and college. It certainly is not the norm, but it is not incredibly unique for a high profile talent.

I think the main issue here though is that we gave up a 2nd round pick in exchange for a 2nd rounder with a year less of development. To me it seems like a misuse of resources. Maybe they were being led to a different conclusion in their discussions with Givens, maybe not. I do not know.

Now, I am not condemning Jordan here as he has done a great deal to improve the lot of our minors . . . but I think this goes down as a miss if he does not get the guy signed. If he is their guy, they better ink him. If he wasn't . . . then why draft him? This is something that is forgivable in later rounds, but a team should be playing for keeps in the top three or four rounds.

In Jordan's defense, I remember during that 1st day, there were a few kids who were "his pick" that got selected just a few slots before ours. It was all specualtion, but it made sense. He had about 3 different kids in mind and all 3 got selected just before that slot and he had to think quickly and took probably what he thought at the time was best. He maybe didnt have as good of a gauge on his demands since it was one of his orignal picks for that slot...

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crawdad Veteran All-Star

crawdad

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In Jordan's defense, I remember during that 1st day, there were a few kids who were "his pick" that got selected just a few slots before ours. It was all specualtion, but it made sense. He had about 3 different kids in mind and all 3 got selected just before that slot and he had to think quickly and took probably what he thought at the time was best. He maybe didnt have as good of a gauge on his demands since it was one of his orignal picks for that slot...

Well . . . I guess it would be forgivable it his job did not have drafting players as a specific duty. I mean, I could understand a mistake like this on a fantasy baseball team, but not when it is a major responsibility for which you are being paid to do.

I doubt this happened to him. If it did . . . it would be gross negligence. Occupying such a position requires you to be prepared.

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crawdad Veteran All-Star

crawdad

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And what if next year is a deeper draft and there are fewer compensation picks - meaning the pick could be a higher one? It could go the other way, but I'll wait to see who we draft and sign with that pick before I get upset.

I will grant you that Jordan is well aware of signing bonus requests so it is a bit odd to see this sort of discrepancy. Jordan may be a bit aggravated at the signing game he is being asked to play here. Perhaps, usually at this point in the negotiating game, the prospect and his agent have swallowed a reality pill or two and are just trying to get something above slot. The irony in that strategy might be that Jordan might pay a bit above slot if the agent and prospect were a bit more engaging than the charade here.

Well, no one is getting upset here. I also think that what at issue is not whether next year is a stronger or weaker class . . . it is about making sound decisions at a moment. I think a second round pick should not be hastily chosen to the point where you hear someone is going to be a hard sign, but you never talk with them much. I don't know . . . that sounds to me like a second rounder was used in a cavalier manner.

In general, I do not have much room to complain. Jordan likes toolsy, high upside guys more than I do, but that is fine. Wasting a year of development time on a draftee though is poor move in my opinion.

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Tony-OH Hangout Grand Counsel

Tony-OH

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I don't think it is entirely unusual that a player abstains from baseball between high school and college. It certainly is not the norm, but it is not incredibly unique for a high profile talent.

I think the main issue here though is that we gave up a 2nd round pick in exchange for a 2nd rounder with a year less of development. To me it seems like a misuse of resources. Maybe they were being led to a different conclusion in their discussions with Givens, maybe not. I do not know.

This is my understanding but I don't have anything concrete on that.

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Jammer7 Hangout Grand Counsel

Jammer7

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I haven't really cared for the pick of Givens, but not because he's 19. That really doesn't bother me at all.

Many of the upper echelon Tampa kids seem to think the world is owed to them, and they act like that in every sport. There is a group of "used to be's" over there that foster that. All of the "hangers-on" are similar to the leeches that do the same in the MD/DC area basketball world. It's sickening really. These kids get a lot of bad advice from certain folks over there. It looks like Given's agent Mike Felder wants a piece of the pie. Lord knows he had a great career worth emulating! :D

How many of these great Tampa kids have really panned out? Sheffield, Gooden (for a little while), Derek Bell (for a little while) and who else? Burgess has some talent, but I was against drafting him last year for the same reasons. There is too often cumbersome baggage attached to some of those kids.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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Two top 10 2nd round picks next year sounds pretty good to me. Then again so does signing Givens. Either way.

That isn't how compensation works for Rounds 2-5, if I understand the rules correctly but it is hard to find them.

It is my understanding that if a team fails to sign their round 2-5 player, they get compensated at the end of the same round the following year. So if we fail to sign Givens, we get a pick at the end of round 2. If I misunderstand this, please someone correct me.

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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

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That isn't how compensation works for Rounds 2-5, if I understand the rules correctly but it is hard to find them.

It is my understanding that if a team fails to sign their round 2-5 player, they get compensated at the end of the same round the following year. So if we fail to sign Givens, we get a pick at the end of round 2. If I misunderstand this, please someone correct me.

In round 2, like in round 1, you get the same pick number plus 1. After that, you are correct, you go at the end of the round.

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allstar1579 Hangout Grand Counsel

allstar1579

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In round 2, like in round 1, you get the same pick number plus 1. After that, you are correct, you go at the end of the round.

This is close to correct. Rounds 1 and 2 you get +1 compensation, round 3 you get end of round, after that you get nada.

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Crazysilver03 Hangout Grand Counsel

Crazysilver03

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This is close to correct. Rounds 1 and 2 you get +1 compensation, round 3 you get end of round, after that you get nada.

I thought rounds 3-5 had after round compensation?

BTW, someone who understands this should really make a sticky post in the Amateur Draft forum about the logistics of the draft, especially compensation.

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allstar1579 Hangout Grand Counsel

allstar1579

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I thought rounds 3-5 had after round compensation?

BTW, someone who understands this should really make a sticky post in the Amateur Draft forum about the logistics of the draft, especially compensation.

Nope, only 1-3 now, after 3 you are S.O.L.

I'll see if I can find the article again, I looked it up during draft time because it figured into my rankings a little bit.

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