Non-Player Hall of Fame Candidates Announced

[ShaneDawg85]

The Hall of Fame has announced the former manager's, executives, and umpires that will be considered for induction with the 2010 class. They include:

Manager's:

Charlie Grimm managed the Cubs and Braves for 19 seasons, taking the Cubs to three World Series. Grimm posted a career record of 1,287-1,067 (.547), which ranks as the 24th-best winning percentage of all-time among managers with at least 1,000 games. Two of his NL pennants came as a player/manager, in which capacity he served from 1932-36. In 10 of his 12 full seasons as a manager, Grimm’s teams had winning records. As a player in 20 seasons, Grimm had 2,299 hits and a .290 batting average.

Whitey Herzog was a manager with the Rangers, Angels, Royals and Cardinals from 1973-90. He was 1,279-1,143 for a .532 winning percentage, winning six division titles, three National League pennants and one World Series in 1982 with the Cardinals. Named 1985 NL Manager of the Year by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America and named 1980s Manager of the Decade by Sports Illustrated.

Davey Johnson managed the Mets, Reds, Orioles and Dodgers from 1984-90, 1993-97 and 1999-2000. Compiled a 1,148-888 (.564) record. Over 12 full seasons, his teams finished first five times and second six times. Teams qualified for postseason six times, winning one NL pennant and one World Series with 1986 Mets. Won 1997 AL Manager of the Year Award with Orioles, and his .564 winning percentage ranks 13th among managers with at least 1,000 games.

Tom Kelly served as the manager of the Minnesota Twins for 16 seasons from 1986-2001, posting a career record of 1,140-1,244 (.478). Won two World Series in five years (1987, 1991) with the Twins and has the longest tenure of any manager in Twins history. In first six full seasons, averaged almost 86 victories per year. Posted a record of 16-8 (.667) in the postseason and was named the 1991 American League Manager of the Year.

Billy Martin spent 16 seasons 1969, 1971-83, 1985, 1988) managing Twins, Tigers, Rangers, Yankees (five different stints) and A’s, compiling a 1,253-1015 record (.552). Teams finished in first place five times, winning two American League pennants and one World Series with 1977 Yankees.

Gene Mauch managed Phillies, Expos, Twins and Angels for 26 seasons (1960-82, 1985-87). Teams posted record of 1,902-2,037 (.483), good for the 12-best win total of all-time and the most wins of any non-active manager not currently in the Hall of Fame. His teams won two division titles, finished second twice and third twice.

Danny Murtaugh managed the Pittsburgh Pirates in four separate stints (1957-64, 1967, 1970-71, 1973-76) over 15 seasons. His teams won 1,115 games against 950 losses (.540) and finished first five times, including four National League East Division titles, NL two pennants and World Series wins in 1960 and 1971. Named National League Manager of the Year in 1958, 1960 and 1970.

Owners/Executives:

Gene Autry owned the Angels from their birth in 1961 until his death in 1998. Autry, a television and movie star known for his rendition of Christmas classic “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer,” led his teams to American League West titles in 1979, 1982 and 1986.

Sam Breadon owned the Cardinals from 1917 to 1947, leading St. Louis to nine pennants and six World Series titles during his tenure. Breadon helped develop the modern farm system by stocking the Cardinals’ own minor league clubs with prospects.

Bob Howsam served as the general manager of the Cardinals in the mid-1960s, helping build a team into a two-time National League pennant winner – and 1967 World Series champion. Howsam then moved on to become the general manager of the Reds, laying the foundation for the Big Red Machine that won four NL pennants and two World Series from 1970-76.

Ewing Kauffman owned the Kansas City Royals from their birth in 1969 until his death in 1993. Kauffman established the innovative Kansas City Royals Baseball Academy and led the Royals to a first- or second-place finish in the American League West every season from 1975-85, including the AL pennant in 1980 and a World Series title in 1985.

John Fetzer owned the Detroit Tigers from 1956-83, building one of the 1960s most consistent teams – one that won the World Series in 1968. Fetzer, a broadcasting pioneer, helped negotiate baseball’s initial national television contract in 1967.

John McHale served as the general manager for the Tigers, Braves and Expos from the 1950s through the 1980s. McHale joined the Expos at their inception in 1969 and built the club into one of baseball’s most consistent teams of the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Marvin Miller was elected as the head of the Major League Baseball Players Association in 1966 and quickly turned the union into a powerhouse. Within a decade, Miller had secured free agency for the players. By the time he retired in 1982, the average player salary was approximately 10 times what it was when he took over.

Gabe Paul served as the general manager of the Cincinnati Reds, the Houston Colt 45s, the Cleveland Indians and the New York Yankees from the 1950s to the 1980s. Paul helped rebuild the Yankees in the 1970s, crafting a team that won three straight American League pennants and two World Series from 1976-78.

Jacob Ruppert owned the New York Yankees from 1915 until his death in 1939, turning a second-division club into a dynasty. Ruppert presided over the acquisition of Babe Ruth, the opening of the original Yankee Stadium, 10 American League pennants and seven World Series titles.

Bill White served as the president of the National League from 1989-94 following a successful career as a player and broadcaster. White presided over the addition of the Marlins and the Rockies to the NL and helped consolidate both the American and National leagues under one administrative umbrella.

http://community.baseballhall.org/Page.aspx?pid=428

So which of these individuals merit being inducted with the 2010 class?

[scOtt]

I don't really have much an opinion on the rest, but Marvin Miller REALLY deserves to be in. He did more to change the game than anyone I can think of in the 20th Century... besides maybe Jackie Robinson and Branch Rickey.

Curt Flood should also be in too.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Rob Neyer made a good point today: what would Marvin Miller's supports say in a few years when (in theory) Scott Boras comes on to the ballot.

I don't think it's a great comparison, since Miller was the most influential non-player in the sport since Kennesaw Mountain Landis, but Boras really is a continuation of what Miller wanted to bring to the sport. He might be a Hall-of-Fame candidate eventually, though he'll probably get even less support than Miller has :laughlol:

[Moose Milligan]

It's a crime that Marvin Miller isn't in.

Too bad Davey Johnson didn't manage more.

[RShack]

Rob Neyer made a good point today: what would Marvin Miller's supports say in a few years when (in theory) Scott Boras comes on to the ballot.

I don't think it's a great comparison, since Miller was the most influential non-player in the sport since Kennesaw Mountain Landis, but Boras really is a continuation of what Miller wanted to bring to the sport. He might be a Hall-of-Fame candidate eventually, though he'll probably get even less support than Miller has :laughlol:

Marvin Miller is an automatic in... and should be.

As for the Boras implication, I don't think the underlined part is true.

Having sane labor/management relations is what Marvin Miller wanted. Not his fault they don't have it.

[BaltimoreTerp]

Marvin Miller is an automatic in... and should be.

As for the Boras implication, I don't think the underlined part is true.

Having sane labor/management relations is what Marvin Miller wanted. Not his fault they don't have it.

No, he wanted the players free to make their own decisions about their careers. That's what Boras does, though in a completely different way than how most people want to see it.

[RShack]

No, he wanted the players free to make their own decisions about their careers.

And how is that incompatible with sane labor/management relations?

Answer: It's not. It's completely normal part of sane labor/management relations.

[ShaneDawg85]

The Hall of Fame has announced the former manager's, executives, and umpires that will be considered for induction with the 2010 class. They include:

Manager's:

Charlie Grimm managed the Cubs and Braves for 19 seasons, taking the Cubs to three World Series. Grimm posted a career record of 1,287-1,067 (.547), which ranks as the 24th-best winning percentage of all-time among managers with at least 1,000 games. Two of his NL pennants came as a player/manager, in which capacity he served from 1932-36. In 10 of his 12 full seasons as a manager, Grimm’s teams had winning records. As a player in 20 seasons, Grimm had 2,299 hits and a .290 batting average.

Whitey Herzog was a manager with the Rangers, Angels, Royals and Cardinals from 1973-90. He was 1,279-1,143 for a .532 winning percentage, winning six division titles, three National League pennants and one World Series in 1982 with the Cardinals. Named 1985 NL Manager of the Year by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America and named 1980s Manager of the Decade by Sports Illustrated.

Davey Johnson managed the Mets, Reds, Orioles and Dodgers from 1984-90, 1993-97 and 1999-2000. Compiled a 1,148-888 (.564) record. Over 12 full seasons, his teams finished first five times and second six times. Teams qualified for postseason six times, winning one NL pennant and one World Series with 1986 Mets. Won 1997 AL Manager of the Year Award with Orioles, and his .564 winning percentage ranks 13th among managers with at least 1,000 games.

Tom Kelly served as the manager of the Minnesota Twins for 16 seasons from 1986-2001, posting a career record of 1,140-1,244 (.478). Won two World Series in five years (1987, 1991) with the Twins and has the longest tenure of any manager in Twins history. In first six full seasons, averaged almost 86 victories per year. Posted a record of 16-8 (.667) in the postseason and was named the 1991 American League Manager of the Year.

Billy Martin spent 16 seasons 1969, 1971-83, 1985, 1988) managing Twins, Tigers, Rangers, Yankees (five different stints) and A’s, compiling a 1,253-1015 record (.552). Teams finished in first place five times, winning two American League pennants and one World Series with 1977 Yankees.

Gene Mauch managed Phillies, Expos, Twins and Angels for 26 seasons (1960-82, 1985-87). Teams posted record of 1,902-2,037 (.483), good for the 12-best win total of all-time and the most wins of any non-active manager not currently in the Hall of Fame. His teams won two division titles, finished second twice and third twice.

Danny Murtaugh managed the Pittsburgh Pirates in four separate stints (1957-64, 1967, 1970-71, 1973-76) over 15 seasons. His teams won 1,115 games against 950 losses (.540) and finished first five times, including four National League East Division titles, NL two pennants and World Series wins in 1960 and 1971. Named National League Manager of the Year in 1958, 1960 and 1970.

Owners/Executives:

Gene Autry owned the Angels from their birth in 1961 until his death in 1998. Autry, a television and movie star known for his rendition of Christmas classic “Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer,” led his teams to American League West titles in 1979, 1982 and 1986.

Sam Breadon owned the Cardinals from 1917 to 1947, leading St. Louis to nine pennants and six World Series titles during his tenure. Breadon helped develop the modern farm system by stocking the Cardinals’ own minor league clubs with prospects.

Bob Howsam served as the general manager of the Cardinals in the mid-1960s, helping build a team into a two-time National League pennant winner – and 1967 World Series champion. Howsam then moved on to become the general manager of the Reds, laying the foundation for the Big Red Machine that won four NL pennants and two World Series from 1970-76.

Ewing Kauffman owned the Kansas City Royals from their birth in 1969 until his death in 1993. Kauffman established the innovative Kansas City Royals Baseball Academy and led the Royals to a first- or second-place finish in the American League West every season from 1975-85, including the AL pennant in 1980 and a World Series title in 1985.

John Fetzer owned the Detroit Tigers from 1956-83, building one of the 1960s most consistent teams – one that won the World Series in 1968. Fetzer, a broadcasting pioneer, helped negotiate baseball’s initial national television contract in 1967.

John McHale served as the general manager for the Tigers, Braves and Expos from the 1950s through the 1980s. McHale joined the Expos at their inception in 1969 and built the club into one of baseball’s most consistent teams of the late 1970s and early 1980s.

Marvin Miller was elected as the head of the Major League Baseball Players Association in 1966 and quickly turned the union into a powerhouse. Within a decade, Miller had secured free agency for the players. By the time he retired in 1982, the average player salary was approximately 10 times what it was when he took over.

Gabe Paul served as the general manager of the Cincinnati Reds, the Houston Colt 45s, the Cleveland Indians and the New York Yankees from the 1950s to the 1980s. Paul helped rebuild the Yankees in the 1970s, crafting a team that won three straight American League pennants and two World Series from 1976-78.

Jacob Ruppert owned the New York Yankees from 1915 until his death in 1939, turning a second-division club into a dynasty. Ruppert presided over the acquisition of Babe Ruth, the opening of the original Yankee Stadium, 10 American League pennants and seven World Series titles.

Bill White served as the president of the National League from 1989-94 following a successful career as a player and broadcaster. White presided over the addition of the Marlins and the Rockies to the NL and helped consolidate both the American and National leagues under one administrative umbrella.

http://community.baseballhall.org/Page.aspx?pid=428

So which of these individuals merit being inducted with the 2010 class?

There's some strong cases to be made for some of the guys in the manager's group, while at the same time cases to be made against others. Are there any managers in the Hall with losing records? I think that would be a strong case against guys like Tom Kelly, although in his case I don't think he managed for a long enough period of time, although he does have two rings. It would be great to see Davey Johnson in the Hall, but he has the same problem as Kelly, but with a much better record. Had he won a title or two with the Orioles, or another one with the Mets he might have a case.

Billy Martin is a real controversial figure, both in life and death. He's got the Yankee aura about him, a World Series ring as a manager, and it seemed that every time he went to a new ball club they immediately started to win. But at the same time a lot of people in and out of the game didn't like him, and his personality doesn't endear him to this day. Still, nobody ever said the Hall was perfect.

Gene Mauch was praised throughout his career, but he does have a losing record, and his teams always seemed to be dogged by the fact they couldn't get over the hump, as he managed for 26 seasons and never got to a World Series, best highlighted by the Phillies collapse in the 1960's, and the Angels dramatic downfall in the 1986 ALCS against the Red Soxs. While he's very deserving, I don't think he gets in.

Out of the group of manager's the best bets would be Grimm, Herzog, or Murtaugh. Grimm has the mark of being a player-manager, and a successful one at that, and you have to think that somebody is going to recognize the fact that he was as successful as he was with the Cubs. Murtaugh is the most successful of the three, although his coming's and going's in Pittsburgh could be held against him. But at the same time, and unlike everyone else on the list, he still managed to stay with one team his entire managerial career, and he won during that time.

With the owner's/executive's Marvin Miller is going to be a hot-button selection, as he always is. They might be inclined to induct him as he's up there in age, but he's still a controversial figure. I'm somewhat surprised Jacob Ruppert isn't in the Hall yet, as although Ed Barrow was the GM of those great Yankee teams, Ruppert oversaw everything, and had the Babe Ruth trade not happened, who's to know how different baseball might have been. Gene Autry has the recognition factor, although for a lot of years his teams weren't that great.

They're all fine and important figures, so it will be interesting to see who among these men, if any, are inducted.

[TGO]

I'm somewhat surprised Jacob Ruppert isn't in the Hall yet, as although Ed Barrow was the GM of those great Yankee teams, Ruppert oversaw everything, and had the Babe Ruth trade not happened, who's to know how different baseball might have been. Gene Autry has the recognition factor, although for a lot of years his teams weren't that great.

For most of the voting history, they only inducted 1 or 2 executive candidates every decade. There were 4 in the 90s, I believe, and now there have been 7 this decade, so things have changed, but they just did not induct many of these people for the first 50 years of the Hall.

[DrungoHazewood]

Miller, Johnson, Herzog. But who knows what the voters will do. Last time they passed over Miller for freakin' Bowie Kuhn. There isn't a single part of the HOF selection process that isn't screwed up.

[BaltimoreTerp]

And how is that incompatible with sane labor/management relations?

Answer: It's not. It's completely normal part of sane labor/management relations.

I gotcha. My fault.

[TGO]

Davey Johnson?

Are you combining his playing and managing career?

As much as I love Davey Johnson I just don't think he managed long enough to be considered a HOF manager.

I would have to agree with that, unfortunately.

Of the managers I think Herzog gets in.

I think Kauffman and Breadon have a shot in addition to Miller in the executive field.

[ShaneDawg85]

Davey Johnson?

Are you combining his playing and managing career?

As much as I love Davey Johnson I just don't think he managed long enough to be considered a HOF manager.

I agree, for the reasons I highlighted earlier. 12 seasons wouldn't be such a deterrant, if he had won a few more titles, or at least won another pennant or two. Had he won another pennant/title with the Mets in the 1980's, or with the O's in 96-97, things might be different for him. But he didn't, and he really kind of left the game abruptly and on a down note with the Dodgers. I have to remind myself sometimes that he even managed there.

Great managerial career, a lot of success, but not long enough or successful enough for me to say he's Hall of Fame material. Maybe a few years down the road that changes, and the voters see it differently, but right now I can't see it happening.

[scOtt]

I agree, for the reasons I highlighted earlier. 12 seasons wouldn't be such a deterrant, if he had won a few more titles, or at least won another pennant or two. Had he won another pennant/title with the Mets in the 1980's, or with the O's in 96-97, things might be different for him. But he didn't, and he really kind of left the game abruptly and on a down note with the Dodgers. I have to remind myself sometimes that he even managed there.

Great managerial career, a lot of success, but not long enough or successful enough for me to say he's Hall of Fame material. Maybe a few years down the road that changes, and the voters see it differently, but right now I can't see it happening.

Davey needs to get back into baseball somehow. I know he's a WBC manager... or Olympics, or something. I forget. But he needs to get back into MLB proper. Cement his legacy. I like DT just fine. For now... In a year or two.....

[DrungoHazewood]

What's long enough? Davey is 51st in all-time games managed. He's just behind Frank Seele, who's in the Hall and never played professional baseball. He's virtually tied with Red Schoendienst in games managed. Red is in the Hall and Davey was probably a better player and manager.

The standards for managers are the same as the standards for players, as far as I know. Maybe even looser. For players it's "played in parts of 10 years in the majors, unless you're Addie Joss, and we think you're good enough." For managers it's apparently "we think you're good enough."

Davey was/is a great manager. I think that's good enough.

Edit: Upon further review, Red Schoendienst was probably a better player than Davey.