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Chipper Jones may retire after 2010

backwardsk

By backwardsk
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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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That's absurd.

Depends on how much you value defense. Let's be honest, Brooks wasn't exactly an offensive powerhouse. Defensively, he was as good as it gets. That seems kind of reasonable to me, as I could think of an argument for 56 position players being better than him.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Depends on how much you value defense. Let's be honest, Brooks wasn't exactly an offensive powerhouse. Defensively, he was as good as it gets. That seems kind of reasonable to me, as I could think of an argument for 56 position players being better than him.

Well WAR obviously factors defense in quite a bit.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Well WAR obviously factors defense in quite a bit.

Just asking here, b/c I'm not sure, but does the defensive factor in WAR for historic players take into account everything that UZR does? Do they actually go back and look at every play to see if it was in his "zone?"

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Just asking here, b/c I'm not sure, but does the defensive factor in WAR for historic players take into account everything that UZR does? Do they actually go back and look at every play to see if it was in his "zone?"
TZ- TotalZone, a measure of defensive range based on analysis of retrosheet play by play data. For seaons before 1953, and the 1953 American League, This measure is based on a much cruder formula called JAARF (Just another adjusted range factor.) which estimates defensive ratings from assists, putouts and errors, as well as team hits allowed by lefthanded and righthanded pitchers.

Robinson has a 268 TZ for his career, which may be the highest of any player, I'm not sure if there's a way to sort that somewhere.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Robinson has a 268 TZ for his career, which may be the highest of any player, I'm not sure if there's a way to sort that somewhere.

What exactly is "retrosheet play by play data?" It seems like this doesn't encompass everything that UZR does. Not saying the rankings aren't accurate (although, aren't almost all of the arguments about which player is better subjective), but maybe with more complete data his ranking would be different.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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What exactly is "retrosheet play by play data?" It seems like this doesn't encompass everything that UZR does. Not saying the rankings aren't accurate (although, aren't almost all of the arguments about which player is better subjective), but maybe with more complete data his ranking would be different.

I'm not sure how accurate it is, maybe Drungo or 1970 or someone can enlighten us. However, I doubt his ranking would be much better, he's already being credited with absolutely amazing defense.

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