Tillman should have never been brought up

[NewMarketSean]

Count me in the group that has never been all that impressed with Tillman.

I would agree. The first time I watched Matusz or Arrieta pitch in the minors or majors, I could see it. They had "it" whether or not they had prolonged success or not. We will see with Arrieta.

With Tillman, I never saw it, aside from a good curve ball at times.

He is still very young, and the O's are going absolutely nowhere, so we might as well spend 40-50 more starts on the kid before we send him packing.

[H0smash]

I would agree. The first time I watched Matusz or Arrieta pitch in the minors or majors, I could see it. They had "it" whether or not they had prolonged success or not. We will see with Arrieta.

With Tillman, I never saw it, aside from a good curve ball at times.

He is still very young, and the O's are going absolutely nowhere, so we might as well spend 40-50 more starts on the kid before we send him packing.

I remember watching him pitch against Toronto last year and didn't have his 'A' stuff, but still put up a solid line. I was very impressed for a guy his age to be able to do that.

I don't know if we've seen his 'A' stuff at the major-league level yet, maybe he's trying to change something/pitch differently every time he's brought up. I don't know.

I hope, though, that he puts on some weight this offseason, at least 20 lbs., and develops that cutter (pay Mariano some money to teach you to throw it or become friends with Doc Halladay).

For the rest of the year, though, I think Tillman should get at least 4 or 5 more starts in the rotation, if he continues to struggle move him to the bullpen and let him work on his command of his fastball in the 7th or 8th inning. I think learning to get major league hitters out would go a long way for Tillman, and if he could learn to do that in the bullpen, maybe he could return to the rotation next year and pitch like we hoped he would.

[Salisbury OsFan]

I am the only one who thinks Trea just wits back grinning when things like this happen just so he can start a thread like this.

I am so tired of him acting like he is the end all be all to everything Orioles related when HE DOESN'T EVEN WATCH THE GAMES.

Trea, How many times have you seen Tillman pitch?

Oh, and by the way who are we supposed to be trading him for? What team do you know of is willing to give up a future middle infielder for him? Because otherwise the constant pissing and moaning on a message board is a waste of time.

Unless you actually know something or see something, stop acting like you could run the Orioles better than McPhail, because in essence that is what all of your threads boil down to.

[JourneyFan]

I've never been one to support our pitching prospects continuing to throw batting practice at the major league level simply because there's supposedly nothing else for them to prove at AAA; however, given the way this season has been progressing, I don't really have a problem with it in this case. I say keep the guy up here and let him work through it. If he has an ERA this terrible at the end of the season, then we should re-evaluate his role.

[Dannyboy]

He said it himself:

http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20100531&content_id=10643146&vkey=news_bal&fext=.jsp&c_id=bal

So he stopped focusing on fastball command, when that is something he should have kept focusing on as we can see he still needs a ton of work with that, for better results at the AAA level.

Where in the highlighted part does it say he stopped focusing on fastball command?

[Three Run Homer]

If he's throwing 91-94 and still getting hit because he leaves too many pitches up in the zone, then I can see an argument for letting him take his lumps up here to work on refining his command.

But if he's throwing 87-91, then something is seriously wrong with his health or mechanics. The issue to me isn't should he pitch at Norfolk or should he pitch in the majors...the issue to me is, right now, should he be pitching anywhere at all.

Kranitz had better be putting in long hours looking at tape on Tillman to try to figure out whether he had a mechanical flaw last night that led to his lower velocity. And they need a medical evaluation on Tillman as well to see if there's a physical issue.

I wouldn't send him out to pitch here or in Norfolk until I felt like there were some answers about what happened last night...or at least some informed hypotheses.

[Stotle]

I'm worried about Tillman. His fastball just looks so mediocre and I think the Phil Hughes comparison is a stretch.

Hughes' first year in the majors at age 21 he had a 4.46 ERA and struck out 7 batters per nine. In 2007 he was considered the number one pitching prospect in all of baseball by BA.

Tillman had a 5.40 ERA last year and has only struck out 5 batters per nine. In 2009 he was rated the 8th best pitching prospect in baseball by BA.

I don't think the stats are the best comp tool for young players transitioning. For whatever it's worth, I spoke to an evaluator here in the NYC area that said he likes Tillman more than he liked Hughes at the same age. Shrug.

[Mackus]

If he's throwing 91-94 and still getting hit because he leaves too many pitches up in the zone, then I can see an argument for letting him take his lumps up here to work on refining his command.

But if he's throwing 87-91, then something is seriously wrong with his health or mechanics. The issue to me isn't should he pitch at Norfolk or should he pitch in the majors...the issue to me is, right now, should he be pitching anywhere at all.

Kranitz had better be putting in long hours looking at tape on Tillman to try to figure out whether he had a mechanical flaw last night that led to his lower velocity. And they need a medical evaluation on Tillman as well to see if there's a physical issue.

I wouldn't send him out to pitch here or in Norfolk until I felt like there were some answers about what happened last night...or at least some informed hypotheses.

It happened once last year too. Its likely just a bad night.

I won't completely rule out the possibility of a concern, but I am not very worried about him right now.

[Mashed Potatoes]

I don't think the stats are the best comp tool for young players transitioning. For whatever it's worth, I spoke to an evaluator here in the NYC area that said he likes Tillman more than he liked Hughes at the same age. Shrug.

Well that's certainly good to hear and I agree that projections from professional evaluators deserve as much credence as stats for this stage of a career, especially when the data set is under 100 innings.

Question for you and others who've seen Tillman in the minors, did his pure stuff look better there? Does he have the same stuff but he's just not locating it in the majors? Is he showing worse stuff and worse command at the majors than he showed in the minors?

[foxfield]

The Hughes AND Penn items are worth noting here...the fact is he is a prospect who had a terrible night. It could be just a bad night...it could be mechanical, injury or it could be that ultimately he wont be good enough. Either way, we are all becoming too synical if we want to say Tillman is a bust.

Personally, and it is only my opinion...let him take his lumps here and stay off him. Either let him pitch every 5 days or put him in the pen and let him throw from there...

Some of the outings last year from the Rays pitchers looked pretty weak too...seems like that worked out ok. Right?

[Stotle]

Well that's certainly good to hear and I agree that projections from professional evaluators deserve as much credence as stats for this stage of a career, especially when the data set is under 100 innings.

Question for you and others who've seen Tillman in the minors, did his pure stuff look better there? Does he have the same stuff but he's just not locating it in the majors? Is he showing worse stuff and worse command at the majors than he showed in the minors?

Hat tip to VaTech (I believe) for banging the drum on the lack of effectiveness with his curve. That's a huge issue. Mostly, in my opinion, he's a typical young pitcher that needs refinement. He needs to work on his release. He needs to work on continuing to understand his mechanics and how they affect his effectiveness. Tinkering with grips, effort in pitches, etc. are all important. He can do that at AAA, but only if it's drummed home that the numbers don't matter. I would even consider doing something like telling him that a 2011 spot in the rotation is his to lose and that stats at AAA will not be taken into account. He can do that at the ML level as a starter (on this team) or in the pen if you make it a point to give him 5 IP a week (probably the best course of action, IMO).

But most importantly, give him some comfort that he isn't pitching for his future with each outing! Yo-yoing between AAA/ML is unfathomable. Basically, rewarding for AAA stats and punishing when he doesn't show that same effectiveness against a much better group of hitters. It's just a horrible way to handle young players. This organization really has its head up its own ass...

[Sports Guy]

You've got to be kidding me. His hit's per 9 innings at Norfolk were not impressive. His strikeout rate at Norfolk was down. He's pitched 4 games up here and failed to get into the 3rd inning in two of them. Add to that the fact that his stuff looked awful last night, and you're not the least bit worried about him? Check your pulse, please!

I am not so worried about that because apparently the defense blows in AAA, right?