Actions Speak Louder than Words

[Greg Pappas]

First and foremost, "Thank you Tony."

I'm angered and sickened by what has been done/what is being done to our team, and with a bleak and dismal continuation evident- I wish in times like these we could 'vote out' those responsible. Peter Angelos needs to sell the team, and as well should be ashamed of himself... as should everyone involved in orchestrating this utter disgrace of a franchise. MacPhail is part of the problem, not the solution.

I'm proud to be an Orioles fan, but embarrassed by what they've become.

[PrivateO]

This is correct. And it is downright embarassing. :rolleyestf:

My family's company (finally) got a modern business-format computer system in 2009. Let's just say they were very traditional and didn't want to change the way that they had been doing things (sound familiar ). Finally they caved.

But the Orioles. A Major League Baseball franchise that has a relatively "blank check budget" for something as simple as a computer system for keeping stats. Wow. I mean think about it. This site was running Prospect Tracker in 2007. It's insane (if true) that the Orioles weren't even getting detailed reports on their minor leaguers, along with a program that saved all stats and reports.

[DrungoHazewood]

One thing I'm still not convinced of is that the O's have a lot of money lying around. Tony said at the end of the article "It’s hard for anyone to believe the bottom line is not good." Well, that depends. I think the O's aren't losing a ton of money. They're probably turning a small profit.

But Angelos and his other investors spent $173M on the team in '93. Just adjusting for inflation, that's the equivalent of $260M or so in 2010. According to Tony/Forbes they're worth $376M today. So in 17 years the franchise has averaged a $6.8M real value gain per year. That's good, but it's not overwhelmingly good. I would imagine Angelos has made much more profit out of other business ventures than he has out of the O's.

[Going Underground]

I wonder if Tony's sources have heard anything about if/when Peter decides to sell the team or hand it over to his sons?

Peter is not selling the team The one son is going to take over. He might be even more fun then Poppa.

[SilentJames]

The Rays always had top-rated prospects coming through their system as a byproduct of being the worst team in baseball for 10 years. For a long time, they whiffed on a lot of guys...but they continued to churn out players and eventually, it worked, thanks to their scouting and development.

We had a perfect storm occur where we had 6-10 guys in the minors who all were viewed to be solid/good MLB players within a year's time. Now that they are all in the MLB, and struggling, we don't have a next wave.

But it wasn't a matter of all of these guys suck at once well call up the next wave. That is what I got from your statement. Much of the current roster was brought up piece by piece over the course of three years.

We should also remember that the 2008 Rays was just the franchise's 10th year in existence.

[PaulFolk]

To me, the most eye-opening part of the article was the debacle with the player development and scouting departments. The fact that Stockstill and Jordan weren't on speaking terms, and the fact that David Stockstill is unfirable because he got people close to ownership out of some trouble. Talk about dysfunctional.

According to the sources, communication was not Stockstill’s strength. Multiple sources indicated it was hard to get a phone call returned from him, and there were multiple stories of players being upset by a lack of understanding of their role and/or reasons for certain promotions or lack thereof. Multiple sources also indicated that he and Scouting Director Joe Jordan were not on speaking terms, and many of the Orioles’ minor league managers and coaches were caught in the player development/scouting battle at the top. When you add it up, you had a pretty dysfunctional situation occurring. In fact, good baseball people like Andy Etchebarren and Tom Lawless were fired one offseason by Stockstill, reportedly due to them being "too close" with the scouting personnel.

...

When you add it all up, you have to wonder how he kept a job all these years. Although the exact story remains a close secret, multiple sources indicate that Stockstill and Bernhardt once got some people close to ownership out of some trouble in the Dominican and have job security due to this fact. Sources also indicate that Jim Duquette tried to fire Stockstill but was not allowed to by Angelos. Sources also indicate that Andy MacPhail wanted to get rid of him as well but was only able to move him out of the Player Development role into International Scouting.

[NewMarketSean]

But it wasn't a matter of all of these guys suck at once well call up the next wave. That is what I got from your statement. Much of the current roster was brought up piece by piece over the course of three years.

We should also remember that the 2008 Rays was just the franchise's 10th year in existence.

It doesn't matter when they were brought up. Over time, they fizzled out and the organization had players to come along and replace them.

Then they made smart moves like signing Pena and trading Young for Garza and Bartlett.

MacPhail says he wants to follow the Rays model but he is really only looking at their drafting strategy and ignoring everything else the Rays have done well over the last 3-4 years.

[Going Underground]

What I got from the article (and maybe someone can refute/back me up on this) is that no such reports or statistics system was put in place before MacPhail was in office. He was probably as shocked as all of us that the team didn't have one.

It was 2007. If the Orioles did not have a computer system that could track prospects, stats, etc., that's just downright embarrassing.

This from the team that had the worst Spring training site for years. The worst minor league Spring training facility. Other teams did not even want to play on the field. Also we lost our AAA team from Rochester because the city thought we were not putting in a good enough product. This is all embarrassing and maybe now 20 years later might be getting fixed.

[soxhotcorner14]

Yes it is. You get the basic idea down and hire some programmers.

Done.

No it's not man, you have to develop the system (If application doesn't already exist to your standards). Build out physical infrastructure for said system. Build out the infrastructure for this system. Q&A the system. Roll out system. Prototype system. Roll out system to entire organziation. Provide training on system. And we haven't even begun to talk about laying out the foundation of a formidable network for the Orioles. We are just talking their application for reports.

That kind of thing takes time. Don't try and sit back and simplify it just because you don't care for AM. Regardless if you like him or not, stuff takes time. Go ask the CIO of the Red Sox who is a team the O's are looking up at when it comes to running a sound organization... it isn't as simple as hiring programmers. :rolleyestf:

[SilentJames]

It doesn't matter when they were brought up. Over time, they fizzled out and the organization had players to come along and replace them.

Then they made smart moves like signing Pena and trading Young for Garza and Bartlett.

MacPhail says he wants to follow the Rays model but he is really only looking at their drafting strategy and ignoring everything else the Rays have done well over the last 3-4 years.

The only reason Pena was a smart signing is the fact that he did two things that he had never done before in his career: 1) stay healthy and 2)hit for consistent power.

Pena's previous season high was 27, but he never came close to that again and regressed. He almost didn't have a job and the Rays took a chance and hit the jackpot.

It took the Rays ten years to build a farm system that produced those players.

[The Wedge]

Man I am totally utterly depressed after reading that.

We have an owner who supposedly wants to spend on FAs but not invest in international scouting.

And we have a GM who supposedly wants to invest in scouting and development but not FAs.

And neither appear willing to move off of their positions...

You were already depressed and a roof jumper. Move along.

[TiredofLosing20]

MacPhail is still getting Angelos to spend money on domestic scouting.

But that alone isn't going to do it.

And if you haven't noticed MacPhail is a younger, less senile version of Syd Thrift only with less success at the ML level for the Orioles.

No, Trea, its good I get you completely now. While you espouse your hatred of Angelos, you clearly long for the days where he is intimately involved and simply hires the GM that will follow his philosophy. I get it now.

[SilentJames]

No it's not man, you have to develop the system (If application doesn't already exist to your standards). Build out physical infrastructure for said system. Build out the infrastructure for this system. Q&A the system. Roll out system. Prototype system. Roll out system to entire organziation. Provide training on system. And we haven't even begun to talk about laying out the foundation of a formidable network for the Orioles. We are just talking their application for reports.

That kind of thing takes time. Don't try and sit back and simplify it just because you don't care for AM. Regardless if you like him or not, stuff takes time. Go ask the CIO of the Red Sox who is a team the O's are looking up at when it comes to running a sound organization... it isn't as simple as hiring programmers. :rolleyestf:

Seriously. I mean why do people think stuff like this is so easy?

[soxhotcorner14]

We had a perfect storm occur where we had 6-10 guys in the minors who all were viewed to be solid/good MLB players within a year's time. Now that they are all in the MLB, and struggling, we don't have a next wave.

This didn't happen over night. This has happened ever since Angelos has taken over as the owner. To AM's credit you can't blame 15 years of futility on him.

The "next wave" takes time to build.. if the O's were doing their jobs prior to AM coming here, they would have what you describe with the Rays. The "wave" that is here now, would of been that next wave... But are rushed because there was nothing in this organization for the longest time.

[03tribegrad]

That was it?

Meh, I'm unimpressed.

Everything I read is stuff they've been saying at WNST for the last 5 years.

A day late and a dollar short although I commend Tony for having the cajones to put it up.

It will be interesting to see if there's a fallout from this the way there was with Nestor Aparicio and Steve Davis. When those two spoke out, they were ostracized by the club. I wonder if Tony will meet the same fate?