Actions Speak Louder than Words

[weams]

Magnum Opus

[SilentJames]

Actually, the Rays were/are.

The Rays busted with much of their core before the players you mentioned came up and turned the Rays into a WS team: remember Dukes, Brazelton, Baldelli, Young, Cantu, etc...

Because they were so deep, they were able to overcome those players faltering. We don't have that second wave.

No, you make it seem like the current Rays roster was just waiting to be called up at the same time when all of those guys busted at the same time. It didn't happen like that and you know it.

The key members of the Rays' 08 team outside of Longoria were brought up/in over the previous three years.

[JTrea81]

So maybe he can get Syd Thrift back. Unbelievable that you would actually be calling for Angelos to hire a stool pigeon. You just don't get it. We have been operating under the Angelos Way for the past 15 years. It left our farm system, our international presence, and our ML team in complete disarray. But here you are clearly calling for the return of Syd Thrift. This statement here may be the absolutely worst possible thing you have ever spouted on this website.

MacPhail is still getting Angelos to spend money on domestic scouting.

But that alone isn't going to do it.

And if you haven't noticed MacPhail is a younger, less senile version of Syd Thrift only with less success at the ML level for the Orioles.

[Sports Guy]

I felt like I was reading a summary of my posts from over the years:

1) No accountability...check

2) Not aggressive enough...check

3) Don't care enough about international scouting and signings...check

4) AM wants bargains...check

The list can go on and on. End of the day, this is why I am not surprised by anything said. These have been obvious things for years and, working inside that warehouse, I saw many of these issues first hand. I was told that I was bitter or whatever words you wanted to use...Truthful and understanding of the situation is what I was(along with Stoner, who also heard the same criticisms).

It is what it is...As I have been saying, we are doomed as long as PA is the owner.

[mweb]

Better international signings wouldn't come into play for 4-5 years.

If we had a long-established tradition of being good internationally we'd be able to hide some of that. But I don't think it'd be very reasonable to expect us to have a pipeline of talent pouring in to the MLB level after just 2 or 3 years of being in the DR and elsewhere. We sign these kids when they are 16. They'll take 5-6 years to reach the majors.

I think the Orioles organization is in shambles because of Angelos' poor leadership. That's the cause of our longterm problems and our awful last 10+ years. I think MacPhail's plan is in shambles because of the abysmal performance of the core this season. When we were all expecting at least a small step forward, they took a giant step backwards. That's what makes the next few years look so bleak right now.

Indeed. The young core, which almost all of us thought highly of is the primary reason for the team being so poor this year. And yeah, PA is the primary reason why the organization as a whole is screwed up.

I also agree with you that sharing a facility with the Tigers is fine. The problem is that it hasn't happened yet. The broader problem is that our presence and spending in the international market is still sub-par and we don't have as many scouts as we should.

As far as the rest of the article, most of it has been discussed on here at one time or another, but there were some things that I don't recall and there was plenty of information. I didn't know about Nathan for instance. I'm with Mackus though about the Marlins trade.

I think Trea is right that AM wouldn't have gone to 8/180; however, unlike Trea, I support that as did almost the entire board when free agency started that year.

Tony, I think AM meant that the top of the AL East is typically in a tight race, so those teams are going all out while our young pitchers are "running on fumes" towards the end of the year and having to face these strong lineups while they're fighting for the playoffs. So I would re-consider that one.

Also, just to help you out, I'm guessing you wanted to put for instead of from in this sentence: "Say what you want, but you have to give MacPhail credit from winning these two championships, even if the deck may have been stacked in his favor in 1987."

Overall, a good informative piece, though.

[soxhotcorner14]

Why is he making so much of the new computer system as if this is some big accomplishment? From his descriptions of it, it sounds like something pretty basic. A minor-league report! On a computer, with numbers and stuff! Other teams have been doing this for years, so of course it's good that we now have one, but it's hardly something to tout as if you've just invented Unix. That's pathetic.

.

Building an infrastructure from scratch isn't as simple as it sounds. You make it sound like it's just like installing MS Office on your computer. Not that easy man.. :laughlol:

[DrungoHazewood]

Better international signings wouldn't come into play for 4-5 years.

If we had a long-established tradition of being good internationally we'd be able to hide some of that. But I don't think it'd be very reasonable to expect us to have a pipeline of talent pouring in to the MLB level after just 2 or 3 years of being in the DR and elsewhere. We sign these kids when they are 16. They'll take 5-6 years to reach the majors.

I think the Orioles organization is in shambles because of Angelos' poor leadership. That's the cause of our longterm problems and our awful last 10+ years. I think MacPhail's plan is in shambles because of the abysmal performance of the core this season. When we were all expecting at least a small step forward, they took a giant step backwards. That's what makes the next few years look so bleak right now.

But the Orioles have also been non-players on closer guys like Chapman, and established Japanese talent that could immediately step in. They seem to be of the mindset that $5M or $10M or $15M is just too much risk to take for a non-MLB free agent. Which is guess is understandable when you don't have a lot of data from your own (small handful of) scouts to go on.

Koji excepted, but even there you can see hints that they didn't really know what kind of risk they were taking with his injury history, which may again go back to lack of resources.

[Going Underground]

Nothing earth shattering and did not know in the article. The two people I know from the club laughed about the MacPhail circle of trust. They said they call themselves the Fokkers from Meet the Parents. They said macPhail has the warmth of the Deniro character. At least people might realize we are not going to get any big team free agents till we get better.

[AgentOrange]

Building an infrastructure from scratch isn't as simple as it sounds. You make it sound like it's just like installing MS Office on your computer. Not that easy man.. :laughlol:

Yes it is. You get the basic idea down and hire some programmers.

Done.

[DuffMan]

I wonder if Tony's sources have heard anything about if/when Peter decides to sell the team or hand it over to his sons?

[OK_Os_Fan]

Thanks for the article.

Nothing in there that I did not expect to see.

Dysfunctional organization ? Absolutely

I work in the corporate world and see this kind of thing often. Changing a few workers, leaving much of management in place and expecting improvement.

Not going to happen.

Thanks again

[Shopay]

I appreciate the effort, Tony. Nothing earth-shattering, but a solid overview of the organization.

I think I takeaway is that my suspicions that have been taking hold this year have been pretty well confirmed: The O's #1 problem is at a very low, basic, fundamental level. They don't put the resources where they need to be to build a self-sustaining organization. They don't have nearly enough scouts, they don't have enough empowered front-office types, they don't invest much of anything on non-drafted amateurs.

And they're about as far away from my vision of being one step ahead in emerging markets as any team in baseball. I'm sure there are Japanese or Korean teams that put more resources into scouting Australia or Taiwan or South Africa or Europe or India.

I agree with one of Mackus' posts: what MacPhail can control he's done reasonably well. But until ownership decides to really invest in the foundations of the franchise like Tampa and Toronto (not to mention the obviously more advanced, well-funded, and aggressive Boston and NY) they're doomed.

Yep. And I think this somewhat mirrors what Joe Klein said in his interview which essentially amounted to that AM understood the restrictions he has to work with (i.e., limitations from ownership investment) when he took the job and he believes he can work within those parameters. It doesn't matter who the GM is, they will have to work within those restrictions until PA sells the team.

[soxhotcorner14]

What I got from the article (and maybe someone can refute/back me up on this) is that no such reports or statistics system was put in place before MacPhail was in office. He was probably as shocked as all of us that the team didn't have one.

It was 2007. If the Orioles did not have a computer system that could track prospects, stats, etc., that's just downright embarrassing.

This is correct. And it is downright embarassing. :rolleyestf:

[NewMarketSean]

No, you make it seem like the current Rays roster was just waiting to be called up at the same time when all of those guys busted at the same time. It didn't happen like that and you know it.

The key members of the Rays' 08 team outside of Longoria were brought up/in over the previous three years.

The Rays always had top-rated prospects coming through their system as a byproduct of being the worst team in baseball for 10 years. For a long time, they whiffed on a lot of guys...but they continued to churn out players and eventually, it worked, thanks to their scouting and development.

We had a perfect storm occur where we had 6-10 guys in the minors who all were viewed to be solid/good MLB players within a year's time. Now that they are all in the MLB, and struggling, we don't have a next wave.

[waroriole]

Why is Angelos the way he is? Why is he "owning" this team the way he is? Why does he have his hand in it the way he does? What is the explanation?

I mean, what gives Peter?

That's the real question. Too bad he would never talk about anything mentioned in the article.