Gus Gilchrist

[Jagwar]

Man, that happened when he was 13 years old.

This VT thing happened when he was getting recruited to go to the school. A tiny bit different. It also happend on the campus, not around it like the DC incident.

All I'm saying is that College Park isn't necessarily any safer than the VT campus. Bad things happen in the most random and innocuous places, and his final choice didn't guarantee him any more safety than Blacksburg

Here is another thing. How many other recruits asked out of their LOI after the events of 4/16? And how many regular students (who weren't athletes) decided not to enroll at VT? Why should Gilchrist be scrutinized more than the rest of them simply because he had a senior year that moved him higher on recruiting lists?

[Jagwar]

Um, no. Unless of course you consider "the thick of things" anything within a 50 mile radius of the shootings.

No idea if you were living down in the DC metro area or not, or if you know anyone who does. The closest I ever lived to that area was probably Annapolis. I can't pretend that I know what the residents in that 50-mile radius felt.

Go look at the map again at Wikipedia. College Park is closer to the bulk of the killings than you are giving credit.

From what I have read, people must have been completely terrorized, fearing for their lives. The killings were spread from Ashland to Manassas to Rockville to Silver Spring. How could anyone know if they were safe anywhere?

As I just posted, any random place can turn out to be unsafe at any time. If Gilchrist was a chemistry student who decided not to enroll at VT, and went to College Park instead because he didn't feel safe, nobody would care.

[Dr. FLK]

No idea if you were living down in the DC metro area or not, or if you know anyone who does. The closest I ever lived to that area was probably Annapolis. I can't pretend that I know what the residents in that 50-mile radius felt.

Go look at the map again at Wikipedia. College Park is closer to the bulk of the killings than you are giving credit.

From what I have read, people must have been completely terrorized, fearing for their lives. The killings were spread from Ashland to Manassas to Rockville to Silver Spring. How could anyone know if they were safe anywhere?

As I just posted, any random place can turn out to be unsafe at any time. If Gilchrist was a chemistry student who decided not to enroll at VT, and went to College Park instead because he didn't feel safe, nobody would care.

Speak for yourself. I just bought the "2007 Chemistry Department Preview", and I was checking out the preseason ratings. You'll never believe the drama. Deleware St. had a protege Chemist from Tazhikistan. But, after the recent shootings, he shifted his allegiances to Wofford. That will really throw off their research grant money...they had counted on his genius securing a lot of funding for some new Bunsen Burners and strikers, and now it's not likely to come in. They are really dropping in the CCS (Chem Championship Series). So, sou see TJ, people care...they care a lot...

[SteveA]

All I'm saying is that College Park isn't necessarily any safer than the VT campus. Bad things happen in the most random and innocuous places, and his final choice didn't guarantee him any more safety than Blacksburg

Here is another thing. How many other recruits asked out of their LOI after the events of 4/16? And how many regular students (who weren't athletes) decided not to enroll at VT? Why should Gilchrist be scrutinized more than the rest of them simply because he had a senior year that moved him higher on recruiting lists?

Answers:

1) None

2) The number of students who decided not to enroll was extremely small (something on the order of a dozen in a school of 25,000+) according to the VT admissions department. (That is the number who specifically stated that was a reason for a change of mind to not enroll).

[SteveA]

I'm sure I know which story VT fans believe, but I for one am not convinced Greenberg has come clean on his end. Perhaps he initially OK'ed a year at prep school but then put pressure on the family or otherwise made them feel uncomfortable about it? Either way, I think it's unfair to be overly harsh in judging GG's motive for leaving the school.

Perhaps....but the one fact we DO know is that Greenberg was absolutely under no legal obligation to let him out of his 2007 LOI so that he could go to another NCAA school (as opposed to a prep school). Yet Greenberg did that, to Gilchrist's benefit. Clearly Gilchrist must have told Greenberg that VT was completely out of the picture or else there would be no need to release him from his 2007 LOI.

Just logically looking at Tech's situation, it doesn't seem to me that Greenberg would have too much problem with Gilchrist going to prep school for a year. It's a rebuilding year where we'll be playing nothing but freshmen at the guard positions. If he was a guard it would be a different story.

You're making suppositions about what Greenberg did, based on the word of this personal trainer. VT fans are making suppositions about what went on based on what Greenberg says. Nobody knows the truth. It's a fact that there was an incident on Tech's campus that may have had an effect on how some students might feel about going there. It's also a fact that Gilchrist really blossomed as a player his senior year. He didn't get looks from the likes of Maryland before then, but his stock rose after he had committed to VT. So it's certainly a possibility that he used the 4/16 shootings as an excuse to get out of his commitment and back on on the recruiting market again to be able to go to a stronger historic program than Tech. It's also a possibility that he didn't and that he was genuinely affected by it and no longer felt comfortable going to Tech. No one can deny the possibility of either. And obviously Tech fans are going to be more likely to believe it's the first option. And Terps fans may be more disposed to think it's the latter.

But let me say this...there have been PLENTY of AAU coaches and other types of "personal advisors" who have steered players under their influence one place or the other for personal benefit. Bringing up the possibility that this is another one of those cases is certainly not unreasonable. I know whenever I hear that a kid has an "advisor" of any type that isn't from his family assisting the decision, the first thing that goes through my mind is what is the guy's personal stake or an gle in it. Unfair? Sure, there are probably plenty of good old-fashioned mentor types out there, friends of the family, little league coaches, etc. who do it solely for the benefit of the But college basketball is a billion dollar business and there are plenty of people trying to profit on the fringers of that too.

[doggiedogma]

Perhaps....but the one fact we DO know is that Greenberg was absolutely under no legal obligation to let him out of his 2007 LOI so that he could go to another NCAA school (as opposed to a prep school). Yet Greenberg did that, to Gilchrist's benefit. Clearly Gilchrist must have told Greenberg that VT was completely out of the picture or else there would be no need to release him from his 2007 LOI.

Just logically looking at Tech's situation, it doesn't seem to me that Greenberg would have too much problem with Gilchrist going to prep school for a year. It's a rebuilding year where we'll be playing nothing but freshmen at the guard positions. If he was a guard it would be a different story.

You're making suppositions about what Greenberg did, based on the word of this personal trainer. VT fans are making suppositions about what went on based on what Greenberg says. Nobody knows the truth. It's a fact that there was an incident on Tech's campus that may have had an effect on how some students might feel about going there. It's also a fact that Gilchrist really blossomed as a player his senior year. He didn't get looks from the likes of Maryland before then, but his stock rose after he had committed to VT. So it's certainly a possibility that he used the 4/16 shootings as an excuse to get out of his commitment and back on on the recruiting market again to be able to go to a stronger historic program than Tech. It's also a possibility that he didn't and that he was genuinely affected by it and no longer felt comfortable going to Tech. No one can deny the possibility of either. And obviously Tech fans are going to be more likely to believe it's the first option. And Terps fans may be more disposed to think it's the latter.

But let me say this...there have been PLENTY of AAU coaches and other types of "personal advisors" who have steered players under their influence one place or the other for personal benefit. Bringing up the possibility that this is another one of those cases is certainly not unreasonable. I know whenever I hear that a kid has an "advisor" of any type that isn't from his family assisting the decision, the first thing that goes through my mind is what is the guy's personal stake or an gle in it. Unfair? Sure, there are probably plenty of good old-fashioned mentor types out there, friends of the family, little league coaches, etc. who do it solely for the benefit of the But college basketball is a billion dollar business and there are plenty of people trying to profit on the fringers of that too.

Here is another article on Gus and the VT situation. It appears good 'ole Coach Seth was indeed putting the pressure on Gus to attend this fall and Gus did not like the way Seth was wringin' him, so he said "c ya!" It also appears another player was spooked by the VT shootings, asked to be released and nice guy Seth REFUSED to let him out of his LOI! Nice guy that coach Seth; "Sorry you're scared, but I need you damn it and you're staying!"

Good one coach.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=3079889

[doggiedogma]

Here is one more article saying how Gus was scared after the shootings and did not want to attend VT anymore; can't blame him one bit. Seth did not want Gus to sit out this fall and was pressuring Gus and another incoming player to suit up this fall. Sorry Seth, but your tact did not work and I'm sure was not appreciated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/news/story?id=2869739

[Burg]

Here is another article on Gus and the VT situation. It appears good 'ole Coach Seth was indeed putting the pressure on Gus to attend this fall and Gus did not like the way Seth was wringin' him, so he said "c ya!" It also appears another player was spooked by the VT shootings, asked to be released and nice guy Seth REFUSED to let him out of his LOI! Nice guy that coach Seth; "Sorry you're scared, but I need you damn it and you're staying!"

Good one coach.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=schlabach_mark&id=3079889

Check your facts.

Munson wanted out LONG before the shootings. His departure was for an entirely different reason.

[doggiedogma]

Check your facts.

Munson wanted out LONG before the shootings. His departure was for an entirely different reason.[/QUOT

Munson asked out in mid-July, AFTER the shotings. Whatever reason reason he gave Seth for wanting to leave; Seth refused him from leaving! Real good coach, as if Munson would then want to play for you after you refuse his transfer. I do not believe GW has ever refused a player from transfering.

[AgentOrange]

I can't believe no one has cleaned up this milk yet...

[Burg]

Check your facts.

Munson wanted out LONG before the shootings. His departure was for an entirely different reason.[/QUOT

Munson asked out in mid-July, AFTER the shotings. Whatever reason reason he gave Seth for wanting to leave; Seth refused him from leaving! Real good coach, as if Munson would then want to play for you after you refuse his transfer. I do not believe GW has ever refused a player from transfering.

Again, you don't know the story. Munson wanted out long before the shootings. He may have asked out after the shootings but that was a coincidence. Rumors were swirling about his discontent for much of the basketball season.

[Mackus]

Again, you don't know the story. Munson wanted out long before the shootings. He may have asked out after the shootings but that was a coincidence. Rumors were swirling about his discontent for much of the basketball season.

Doesn't change the fact that its incredibly petty for Greenberg to not allow the transfer and will ultimately be devastating for his reputation.

Have fun trying to sell your program to a kid when other coaches will be showing the obvious example of Greenberg refusing to allow someone to transfer if they are unhappy. You're right that Greenberg is under no obligation to allow the kids out of a LOI or to allow them to transfer, but there is a reason that you almost never hear of a coach refusing either, it decimates their credibility and reputation with recruits.

[SteveA]

Doesn't change the fact that its incredibly petty for Greenberg to not allow the transfer and will ultimately be devastating for his reputation.

Have fun trying to sell your program to a kid when other coaches will be showing the obvious example of Greenberg refusing to allow someone to transfer if they are unhappy. You're right that Greenberg is under no obligation to allow the kids out of a LOI or to allow them to transfer, but there is a reason that you almost never hear of a coach refusing either, it decimates their credibility and reputation with recruits.

Bottom line is that in the end Greenberg DID let Gilchrist out of his LOI so he could enroll in another school this school year. And he DID allow Munson out of his LOI to transfer, with the caveat that he not be allowed to transfer to one school that Greenberg felt might have behaved improperly in the situation. So what if he balked at first and tried to talk Munson into staying or Gilchrist into living up to his commitment? In the final analysis, he released them both.

It's also interesting that when someone posts an article where Greenberg says something, and someone else posts an article where Gilchrist says something...you choose to believe one side 100% and accept the article as complete fact, and believe the other side 0%. Chances are the truth is somewhere more in the middle.

[Mackus]

Bottom line is that in the end Greenberg DID let Gilchrist out of his LOI so he could enroll in another school this school year. And he DID allow Munson out of his LOI to transfer, with the caveat that he not be allowed to transfer to one school that Greenberg felt might have behaved improperly in the situation. So what if he balked at first and tried to talk Munson into staying or Gilchrist into living up to his commitment? In the final analysis, he released them both.

It's also interesting that when someone posts an article where Greenberg says something, and someone else posts an article where Gilchrist says something...you choose to believe one side 100% and accept the article as complete fact, and believe the other side 0%. Chances are the truth is somewhere more in the middle.

All I'm saying is that if Greenberg continues to make it very difficult for kids to transfer or reconsider, then he's also going to start making it very difficult for himself to convince kids to go there in the first place. I'm not trying to make any specific comments on either situation, but its pretty clear that these kids had to jump through hoops to get out of their commitments to VT.

I hope he continues this petty crap, because it will make VT an afterthought in the ACC. Theres no reason for him to make it so difficult for kids to leave the program, it just makes him look bad when recruiting other talent, a point other coaches will be sure to mention to recuits deciding between VT and another school.

[Eight]

You're making suppositions about what Greenberg did, based on the word of this personal trainer. VT fans are making suppositions about what went on based on what Greenberg says. Nobody knows the truth. It's a fact that there was an incident on Tech's campus that may have had an effect on how some students might feel about going there. It's also a fact that Gilchrist really blossomed as a player his senior year. He didn't get looks from the likes of Maryland before then, but his stock rose after he had committed to VT. So it's certainly a possibility that he used the 4/16 shootings as an excuse to get out of his commitment and back on on the recruiting market again to be able to go to a stronger historic program than Tech. It's also a possibility that he didn't and that he was genuinely affected by it and no longer felt comfortable going to Tech. No one can deny the possibility of either. And obviously Tech fans are going to be more likely to believe it's the first option. And Terps fans may be more disposed to think it's the latter.

Gilchrist verballed in early 2006 before Maryland and others had ever given him much of a look. But by the middle of that summer, he had blown up on the AAU circuit and was seen as a big-time player, top 100 in his class.

I'm not going to say I know what happened, but he had become a lot more attractive to Maryland, Georgetown, and other top tier programs well before he even signed an LOI, and almost a year before he de-committed. It's not like he had a super senior season in HS and realized in March that he could go somewhere better. Everyone had known for a while that he was a big time guy by then.