Is Soriano the first player the O's SHOULD go after?

[Andy_Dufresne]

Aramis Ramirez.(if he becomes a FA)

IFhe becomes a FA? When will that be?

OK he's 1 player, and put Mora in LF (a defensive liability? with a weakening bat?)

An upgrade? But he's not historically better than Soriano

Soriano is a career .842 OPS v. .820 for AR

AR's very good, love to have him. But why do you think the Cubs are going to let him walk away over money. And if he opts out of his contract, why in the world will he go from losing with the Cubs to the Orioles?

[DrungoHazewood]

Okay Drungo, let me play devil's advocate once again. Suppose we save the 75-90 million over the next 5-6 years. You have been against mid-level FA's in the 5-8M range in the past. What becomes of this 75-90 million? Are there more worthy FA's out there in the next 2-3 years? Do you concentrate on salary dumps? Do you just ignore the FA market and pour the money into amateur FA signings and the farm system in general? Is it better to not spend that money ever than to make what probably is not a cost effective signing?

I'm not necessarily saying it's a bad signing, but it has to be under the right circumstances. The only way Soriano is worth it is if they really step up to the plate and get good players at LF, 1B, and DH, and make sure they either have an ace or more depth in the rotation. That means they're contenders. That means they have a realistic shot at big-time playoff money that would make the effects of even some bad contracts disappear. Flags fly forever, even if Soriano is making $15M for a .700 OPS in 2012.

But if they're not willing to fix all the big holes and contend in the next couple of years, then they might as well just try to get guys like Dellucci and Cat and make some platoons and invest in the farm system and scouting.

Just signing Soriano and some Conines is basically flushing $75M down the toilet.

[Sports Guy]

When will that be?

He can opt out after the season.

OK he's 1 player, and put Mora in LF (a defensive liability? with a weakening bat?)

Mora will be as good or better on left as he is at third..ie, he will be average....Weakening bat or not, ARam is still the best FA for us.

An upgrade? But he's not historically better than Soriano

Soriano is a career .842 OPS v. .820 for AR

ARam's stats are really drug down by one bad year..He has had 2 straight 900+ OPS seasons and is close to a third(was over 900 until recently,..he must be in a slump)....He has alot of power and gives you a much better OBP than Soriano will.

PLus, he is 2 years younger...He is more likely to give you top production throughout the 5 or 6 years you sign him to than Soriano would because of the age difference.

But why do you think the Cubs are going to let him walk away over money.

I do not see the Cubs offering more than what they paid Derek Lee, which was 5/65 and i am not sure they offer that much. So, if some team is willing to go higher than that, maybe he leaves Chicago. He likes Chicago and may stay for less money but i would be surprised if he doesn't at least test the waters of free agency to see what is out there.

And if he opts out of his contract, why in the world will he go from losing with the Cubs to the Orioles?

Money.

[Andy_Dufresne]

But if they're not willing to fix all the big holes and contend in the next couple of years, then they might as well just try to get guys like Dellucci and Cat and make some platoons and invest in the farm system and scouting.

Just signing Soriano and some Conines is basically flushing $75M down the toilet.

They'll stick with plan C. Make cheap offers to high priced free agents who turn them down to accept significant offers with contending teams. They will then re-sign Mickey Tettleton to back up Ramon and play some first base. Tony Womack will be available, look forward to seeing him at The Yards:rolleyes:

Invest in scouting and farm system? Isn't that what they've been doing for 9 years? Shouldn't the Orioles have produced a Justin Morneau by now?

[Mackus]

Invest in scouting and farm system? Isn't that what they've been doing for 9 years?

No, its not what they've been doing.

People confuse losing with rebuilding. Most of those 9 years of losing didn't involve any sort of rebuilding. Only in the past 3-4 years have we really focused at all on the farm system, and its starting to pay off with Ray, Markakis, Loewen, Penn, and our other solid minor leaguers.

I think we probably need 1-2 more years until we have the right level of young talent to be able to add 2-3 big FAs and have a team that can truly contend. Its one of the reasons why moving Tejada may be the right move, however, we do have enough younger ML ready talent that if we make a couple great moves, contending is possible.

i'd sign Soriano if we also have enough money to sign another really big name bat (maybe trade for Tex) or arm (Schmidt) and enough left to fill out the bullpen and bench. I really can't decide if going after Soriano is a good idea until I know how much money we'll be able to spend. If its around $100M, then I think we should do it.

[DrungoHazewood]

They'll stick with plan C. Make cheap offers to high priced free agents who turn them down to accept significant offers with contending teams. They will then re-sign Mickey Tettleton to back up Ramon and play some first base. Tony Womack will be available, look forward to seeing him at The Yards:rolleyes:

Invest in scouting and farm system? Isn't that what they've been doing for 9 years? Shouldn't the Orioles have produced a Justin Morneau by now?

a) no, they screwed around for most of the past nine years drafting guys like Chris Smith

b) they've produced Markakis, Bedard, Roberts, Ray, Loewen, Cabrera, and Maine just in the past few seasons

[geschinger]

Invest in scouting and farm system? Isn't that what they've been doing for 9 years? Shouldn't the Orioles have produced a Justin Morneau by now?

Do you actually think that is what they've been doing for 9 years?!?!?!

[Andy_Dufresne]

b) they've produced Markakis, Bedard, Roberts, Ray, Loewen, Cabrera, and Maine just in the past few seasons

With a lineup like that, why would they finish the 2006 season losing 88-90 games? And it's OK to substitute Benson for Maine. Sometimes the farm system should be used to trade prospects for established players.

I'll accept Ray, Loewen, Cabrera,for the sake of argument but they haven't proven to be successful, yet. Ray needs to duplicate his performance under some pressure. Why on earth has he appeared in ony 10 in 5 1/2 weeks?

Roberts? I think his injury has really hurt his career. Unless he comes back with a 2007 as good as 2005, he's damaged goods. Markakis had a great 3 month streak. I hope he just hit a wall, rather than having been figured out.

[Boca Bird]

In an ideal world, you'll build from within. Fact of the matter is, we're dealing with 9 straight losing seasons and people are losing interest in this team, big time. Can we really afford to wait three more years and hope our minor leaugers start to produce ?

Free Agency is there; why not take advantage ?

Sign guys like Soriano and Schmdt who provide immediate help while continuing to develop your own players.

I always fly home at least once during baseball season. It would be nice to start booking some trips for Sept, instead of April from now on :002_ssmile:

[geschinger]

Sign guys like Soriano and Schmdt who provide immediate help while continuing to develop your own players.

If you can get enough players to make a serious run at contending for 2007 then sure go for it. But being big player in free agency and developing a top notch farm system are like oil and vinegar, they do not mix.

[DrungoHazewood]

If you can get enough players to make a serious run at contending for 2007 then sure go for it. But being big player in free agency and developing a top notch farm system are like oil and vinegar, they do not mix.

Not necessarily. The Sox farm system isn't great, but they're constantly loading up on picks giving themselves talent infusions letting free agents walk. The Yanks have a decent farm system mainly because they sign a lot of young foreign talent.

And the new CBA will probably get rid of free agent compensation. If/when that happens there's nothing stopping a team from drafting well and signing every free agent in sight.

[geschinger]

Not necessarily. The Sox farm system isn't great, but they're constantly loading up on picks giving themselves talent infusions letting free agents walk. The Yanks have a decent farm system mainly because they sign a lot of young foreign talent.

And the new CBA will probably get rid of free agent compensation. If/when that happens there's nothing stopping a team from drafting well and signing every free agent in sight.

They play the system well but I don't know that I'd call a team that is losing significantly more FAs then they are signing are necessarily big players in Free Agency.

For the Orioles, going out and signing several big type A free agents will set the development of the farm system back.

As for the Yankees, their resources allow them to get quality talent outside the draft. Something I wish the O's would do more of. Although I'm not sure that the net result wouldn't be the Yankees paying more than they otherwise do for someone like Tabata rather than the O's ending up w/him as I don't think we'd be able to outbid 'em.

[Mackus]

For the Orioles, going out and signing several big type A free agents will set the development of the farm system back.

It absolutely will not.

We'll still keep our 1st round pick. And we can get 2nd/3rd round talent through round 10 as long as we are willing to go over MLB's suggested slotting prices.

[geschinger]

It absolutely will not.

We'll still keep our 1st round pick. And we can get 2nd/3rd round talent through round 10 as long as we are willing to go over MLB's suggested slotting prices.

Which we aren't hence it will absolutely set the development of the farm system back.

[geschinger]

Exactly. Not to mention, the Cubs had no 2-4 draft choices this year and did they exact same thing. They used the Notre Dame pitcher's two sports to use the system and then they went over slot on some other guys to make up for those lost picks and still get premium talent. And as far as Gesch saying that the O's can't compete with the Yanks for foreign FA's, it hasn't stopped the Dodgers, Braves, & Blue Jays from signing some top guys in Latin America.

It can be done but do you honestly think Angelos will do that?

I think we can get good talent on the international scene. I'm just not sure getting more involved will slow the Yankees infusion of talent any. I.e. I think the guys the Yankees target are going to be Yankees regardless of cost.