Billy Beane's New Moneyball strategy

[carolinaoriole]

The Beane worship is so overdone, in my opinion. He's never won a pennant, let alone a WS. Oakland has been below .500 4 of the past 5 years, and the 5th was an 81-81 finish. His OBP strategies were long espoused by his predecessor, Sandy Alderson. His original strategies on defense were just dead wrong.

Don't get me wrong, he deserves credit for helping bring statistical analysis to the forefront. I just don't think everything he touches turns to gold like some people believe.

I agree.

[SrMeowMeow]

There is a strong argument to be made that Beane started targeting defense as the new market inefficiency in the last five years or so. I doubt he did that with the goal of driving up the value of his pitchers so he could trade them, though.

[mikegallo]

The real intent of the thread was to stir the a debate of the merits of Beanes strategy of trading young pitchers and putting his team in a better postion to have sustained success versus the normal strategy of trading old guys who have much less value....and on a smaller note why guys like Beane always seem to come up with different ways to reinvent there teams while the Orioles continue the status qoe which never seems to get anywhere.

But when it comes down to it this is a message board so regardless of arguement my intent to stir a good discussion was achieved and thats what the goal always is. My brief history of two threads has managed to get people fired up and talking about baseball. Whether it is some crazy theory on Beanes rebuild or the effects that defense have on pitchers Jeremy versus Zach and teams performance Os versus Rays.

Thats what I wish to contribute to the board, crazy theory with clear holes in it or defense impact on pitching, it doesnt matter how the arguement held water, the discussion was made even without any real news going on.

So it was another successful thread, thanks to all those who gave real contributions.

[RhythmNathan]

Don't worry the Jonah Hill type kid we're hiring as an intern is going to fix everything..

[atomic]

Don't worry the Jonah Hill type kid we're hiring as an intern is going to fix everything..

Do we get a fat jonah hill or a thin jonah hill?

[TakebackOPACY]

Don't worry the Jonah Hill type kid we're hiring as an intern is going to fix everything..

After doing his research, he'll conclude that we should subscribe to the Vag-Tastic Voyage?

[REDMAN]

People can make stats read almost any way they want to prove their point but baseball stats are not the end all of baseball.A player need to know how to play the game correctly,its a team sports.there is no stat for making outs and moving runners up or throwing to the right base.Defensive stats are espically deceptive in that errors are charged to a player,there is no team errors.As for Beane,if he was so great why hasnt a big market team offered him their gm spot.Why,because it just hasnt worked.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It's clear to me that Beane has seen the future of how to rebuild a club by using what we all know to be the most valuable assets in the game YOUNG PITCHING...

If you look at how he developed this young pitching the last few years its clear he decided to build a Defensive club with great D and any offense was a plus.

He basically created his own two Erik Bedard's and got a ransom back....I think it is clear looking at the A's teams the last couple years this was his plan all along.

Using a great D team and his pitchers ballpark he realized he could completely rebuild his farm system in just a few weeks and indeed he has if you look at his trades with the D backs and Nats.

Beane shows us that once again he is far and away more creative then our own team and while it is yet to be seen if the rebuild will suceed he has a great start.

So now he has his own prospects plus the guys he got in trading these two pitchers (who most likely are not as good as there years seemed behind a really good D and pitchers park), plus all the high picks hes gonna get while he is waiting for his prospects to develop.

This plan, which was a couple years in the making, will def take longer than traditional rebuilds but has such a greater chance of success because of the amount of talent he will have coming through plus it will be timed so much better with prospects coming around the same time.

Billy is setting his team up for sustained Rays like success which he could only dream that our team would have the vision and genius to undertake.

Using the most undervalued asset D he turned it into the most valued asset (young pitching) and now his team is ready to have one of the best rebuilding era's ever.

Imagine if the O's had this kind of guy with our (potential) revenue..Our 14 years of rebuilding might actually give way to sustained success.

Teams have been looking at defensive efficiencies for quite awhile now (I know, probably not us). One of the reasons I think the run environment has lessened. You don't see many Cust's or Dunn's etc. in the OF anymore. Oakland's and Seattle's focus on defense and pitching hasn't exactly paid many dividends at this point. Theo was pretty vocal about this with the Red Sox and the results were probably mixed at best. Quite frankly, I think there may be a diminishing return aspect here if you're too heavy on defense. If anything I'd have to say Beane has been mired in a prolonged slump and OAK has underperformed for quite awhile now. I think they expected to do much better the past few years (expecially last year) than what they actually did, so I'm not sure it was all part of some genius master plan. Yes, OAK churned some good pitchers for some nice prospects this offseason and they've got some nice young players on the roster and their system already, but we don't now how that's going to end up just yet.

[Enjoy Terror]

People can make stats read almost any way they want to prove their point but baseball stats are not the end all of baseball.A player need to know how to play the game correctly,its a team sports.there is no stat for making outs and moving runners up or throwing to the right base.Defensive stats are espically deceptive in that errors are charged to a player,there is no team errors.As for Beane,if he was so great why hasnt a big market team offered him their gm spot.Why,because it just hasnt worked.

I'm guessing you didn't read the book, watch the movie or pay much attention to baseball ten years ago. Beane left a lot of money (as in, highest paid GM of the time) on the table from the Red Sox to remain in Oakland with his daughter and his team.

[BaltimoreTerp]

People can make stats read almost any way they want to prove their point but baseball stats are not the end all of baseball.A player need to know how to play the game correctly,its a team sports.there is no stat for making outs and moving runners up or throwing to the right base.Defensive stats are espically deceptive in that errors are charged to a player,there is no team errors.As for Beane,if he was so great why hasnt a big market team offered him their gm spot.Why,because it just hasnt worked.

This attitude is why there are so many people who dislike the "non-stat" people in baseball.

[BaltimoreTerp]

People can make stats read almost any way they want to prove their point but baseball stats are not the end all of baseball.A player need to know how to play the game correctly,its a team sports.there is no stat for making outs and moving runners up or throwing to the right base.Defensive stats are espically deceptive in that errors are charged to a player,there is no team errors.As for Beane,if he was so great why hasnt a big market team offered him their gm spot.Why,because it just hasnt worked.

This attitude is why there are so many people who dislike the "non-stat" people in baseball.

[Gurgi]

I think Billy Beane has gotten more out of his resources than any other GM in baseball. I'm a huge fan.

I think he made a huge mistake in not bailing on Oakland when the book came out and he became a demigod to all fantasy GM wannabe's. He should of taken an offer with a larger market team. I remember reading that Toronto and Boston wanted him?

[byrdz]

People can make stats read almost any way they want to prove their point but baseball stats are not the end all of baseball.A player need to know how to play the game correctly,its a team sports.there is no stat for making outs and moving runners up or throwing to the right base.Defensive stats are espically deceptive in that errors are charged to a player,there is no team errors.As for Beane,if he was so great why hasnt a big market team offered him their gm spot.Why,because it just hasnt worked.

In the fall of 2002, he turned down a five-year, $12.5 million offer to become the general manager of the Boston Red Sox to remain in Oakland, leveraging that decision into a historic position: part owner. Lew Wolff, the owner of the A's, offered Beane a 2-1/2 percent equity stake in the team, worth roughly $8 million.

Few general managers, if any, since Branch Rickey have ever owned a piece of a major league baseball team.

Source

Oh and space bars are located middle of the keyboard.

[Moose Milligan]

The Beane worship is so overdone, in my opinion. He's never won a pennant, let alone a WS. Oakland has been below .500 4 of the past 5 years, and the 5th was an 81-81 finish. His OBP strategies were long espoused by his predecessor, Sandy Alderson. His original strategies on defense were just dead wrong.

Don't get me wrong, he deserves credit for helping bring statistical analysis to the forefront. I just don't think everything he touches turns to gold like some people believe.

This post wins the thread.

[REDMAN]

I think he made a huge mistake in not bailing on Oakland when the book came out and he became a demigod to all fantasy GM wannabe's. He should of taken an offer with a larger market team. I remember reading that Toronto and Boston wanted him?

I wish he would've been the GM for Toronto and an especially Boston, the Orioles would have had a better chance!