If you think this Organization Blows, is the laughing stock of MLB, then

[Sports Guy]

But to say the on the field product is terrible is admitting that you see no upside or changes from the pitching (young pitchers specifically), no real positive changes from Wieters, Jones, Reimold or at least not enough to make any difference.

These are the same players most of us were ballyhooing 2 years ago... have we determined they are a collective bust?

There is upside to them.

But when the fate of your organization essentially rides on the shoulders of about 8 players(3 of which aren't close to helping the ML team), there is a lot of problems.

Too many of you are focused on 2012. 2012 is important so that we can see who can be long term pieces here and who needs to be gone but in terms of it being a successful season(ie contending), its over.

[atomic]

He's fixing the infrastructure of the franchise. Who is 75 besides the Asian scout Pointivant or whatever?

Lee thomas for one. I don't know how old Fred Ferreira is but as he got his started in the 60's. I would assume he is at least around 70. And there are others.

[Sports Guy]

I don't really care about the age of the people they brought into the FO. As long as these guys still know the game, are still passionate about it and are still willing to put in the hours, so be it.

That being said, they should have a lot of new blood around to learn from these guys because its not like these guys are long term fixtures.

[Fan4Life]

There is upside to them.

But when the fate of your organization essentially rides on the shoulders of about 8 players(3 of which aren't close to helping the ML team), there is a lot of problems.

Too many of you are focused on 2012. 2012 is important so that we can see who can be long term pieces here and who needs to be gone but in terms of it being a successful season(ie contending), its over.

I understand your long term condemnation, but when focusing on 2012 only, why isn't there any upside to what's gone on thus far?

Chen

Wada

Pitchers in conditioning program with Brady

New coaches and instructors with proven track records

Many of the changes that have been made won't show any real change for awhile. I agree that relying on the young pitchers is a recipe for disaster and have said so many times. I think the pitching additions have lessened that reliance, and between the additions and the conditioning program of current pitchers, there has to be some room for positive growth as a team in 2012 doesn't there?

[Fan4Life]

Lee thomas for one. I don't know how old Fred Ferreira is but as he got his started in the 60's. I would assume he is at least around 70. And there are others.

What others.. I want to know why this team and organization as currently constructed are STILL the laughing stock on MLB? (ok, PA aside).

[Sports Guy]

I understand your long term condemnation, but when focusing on 2012 only, why isn't there any upside to what's gone on thus far?

Chen

Wada

Pitchers in conditioning program with Brady

New coaches and instructors with proven track records

Many of the changes that have been made won't show any real change for awhile. I agree that relying on the young pitchers is a recipe for disaster and have said so many times. I think the pitching additions have lessened that reliance, and between the additions and the conditioning program of current pitchers, there has to be some room for positive growth as a team in 2012 doesn't there?

You are HOPING Wada and Chen are good...We have no idea.

Again, there is upside with this team...Don't know how many times that needs to be said.

However, the downside is there too and the downside probably outweighs the upside and since there are basically 3 legit prospects and a few solid maybes in the MiL system, there is just not a lot to be encouraged about long term.

DD can have all the good programs and infrastructure that he wants...We all love that all of that appears to be changing for the good.

But you know what you still need...TALENT! The Orioles lack it in a major way.

[Sports Guy]

What others.. I want to know why this team and organization as currently constructed are STILL the laughing stock on MLB? (ok, PA aside).

1) Worst owner in sports.

2) Your GM has been out of the game for 10 years.

3) You are hiring guys out of the nursing home.

4) You haven't been a winning team since 1997.

5) Your talent isn't good.

6) Oh and btw, you play in the toughest division in baseball and in the AL is loaded outside of your division, so you are the furthest away from contention in all of MLB.

So yea, its pretty easy to see why they are a laughing stock, even today.

[BaltimoreTerp]

What others.. I want to know why this team and organization as currently constructed are STILL the laughing stock on MLB? (ok, PA aside).

Because hiring experienced people is a terrible idea, I guess.

[Fan4Life]

You are HOPING Wada and Chen are good...We have no idea.

Again, there is upside with this team...Don't know how many times that needs to be said.

However, the downside is there too and the downside probably outweighs the upside and since there are basically 3 legit prospects and a few solid maybes in the MiL system, there is just not a lot to be encouraged about long term.

DD can have all the good programs and infrastructure that he wants...We all love that all of that appears to be changing for the good.

But you know what you still need...TALENT! The Orioles lack it in a major way.

Ok. I understand your analysis. I'm not sure I would conclude from it that the team on the field is awful, but more so, as usual, has a lot of question marks.

[Sports Guy]

Ok. I understand your analysis. I'm not sure I would conclude from it that the team on the field is awful, but more so, as usual, has a lot of question marks.

Its awful when you compare it to other teams.

Look at the guys we hope to build around...Nick, Jones, Wieters, BMat, Britton and Arrieta. With the exception of Wieters, none of those guys are likely to be elite guys.

Nick is a very good player who every contender would love to have. The starters could be 2/3 type guys...very valuable. Jones is a good player but has a lot of issues.

But you build teams around 5+ WAR guys...We don't have those players unless Wieters hits for a full season like he did in Aug and Sept last year.

You can not win without more elite talent. What the Orioles have are guys with good upside, borderline AS upside...What they don't have is elite talent.

Bundy, Machado and maybe Schoop potentially have that type of talent.

[NewMarketSean]

Ok. I understand your analysis. I'm not sure I would conclude from it that the team on the field is awful, but more so, as usual, has a lot of question marks.

A lot of question marks that are more likely to fail or become average than succeed.

There's probably a 1% chance this team makes the playoffs and probably a 10-20% chance they have a winning record. Thats not being a pessimist, that is taking in all the stuff we know about this team in recent history and applying it to 2012.

[Fan4Life]

1) Worst owner in sports.

What has PA done lately to add to his resume of being the worst owner in sports? The only one I can think of is the La Carva situation. While that is certainly a fair entry to the resume, based on what DD has done thus far, it doesn't appear to have been insurmountable. So what else?

[Fan4Life]

Its awful when you compare it to other teams.

Look at the guys we hope to build around...Nick, Jones, Wieters, BMat, Britton and Arrieta. With the exception of Wieters, none of those guys are likely to be elite guys.

Nick is a very good player who every contender would love to have. The starters could be 2/3 type guys...very valuable. Jones is a good player but has a lot of issues.

But you build teams around 5+ WAR guys...We don't have those players unless Wieters hits for a full season like he did in Aug and Sept last year.

You can not win without more elite talent. What the Orioles have are guys with good upside, borderline AS upside...What they don't have is elite talent.

Bundy, Machado and maybe Schoop potentially have that type of talent.

A lot of question marks that are more likely to fail or become average than succeed.

There's probably a 1% chance this team makes the playoffs and probably a 10-20% chance they have a winning record. Thats not being a pessimist, that is taking in all the stuff we know about this team in recent history and applying it to 2012.

What could have / should have been done to change this?

SG I know you want to see Jones and Guts moved for prospects I presume have Elite talent upside. Is there more?

[Sports Guy]

What has PA done lately to add to his resume of being the worst owner in sports? The only one I can think of is the La Carva situation. While that is certainly a fair entry to the resume, based on what DD has done thus far, it doesn't appear to have been insurmountable. So what else?

Really? Just look at the last 15 years. If you need something that happened 3 weeks ago to re-affirm this, well that's on you.

[Fan4Life]

Really? Just look at the last 15 years. If you need something that happened 3 weeks ago to re-affirm this, well that's on you.

No, he is the raining champion of worst owners in sports... but over the last 3 years... he has provided a payroll that should have had us much better then we were. You can blame that on AM, the players or both. But PA didn't create the 2010 monsoon of losing as well as the pitching collapse of 2011.

He has provided reasonable expenditures in the draft, always could be better, but hasn't been bad.

He move the ST location and invested heavily into the renovations of the facilities there

Apparently he is open to re-configuring the Scouting and development, was he not before? We don't know.

My point here is that he's an awful owner for sure, but I'm not sure he is mostly responsible for what has made this organization and team bad lately.