Guthrie traded to Rockies for Hammel & Lindstrom

[zero1]

Seems like Hammel has a much higher upside than Guthrie. Hammel's 09 and 10 campaigns were much better than any season Guthrie has ever had. I don't get what the big deal is it seems like an even trade. It's not like Guthrie is anything more than a #3 starter.

[Fan4Life]

Any chance this could be part of a move to get Koji back? Especially if Gregg is part of the deal?

[TGO]

Even if you think Hammel is underrated, you don't trade Guthrie for him, you find some spare parts and lower level C prospects the Rockies like and make a deal that way. Like with Teagarden and Eveland, though Hammel would obviously cost a little bit more.

This trade makes zero sense to me.

[Slappy]

Even if you think Hammel is underrated, you don't trade Guthrie for him, you find some spare parts and lower level C prospects the Rockies like and make a deal that way. Like with Teagarden and Eveland, though Hammel would obviously cost a little bit more.

This trade makes zero sense to me.

If you dig into it a bit, there's no way you'd get Hammel for spare parts and C prospects. This is overrating where Guthrie really stands in the pantheon of starting pitchers. Guthrie-for-Hammels is close to a wash trade, and Lindstrom just about balances the scale. IMHO

[eastonguy]

Lol orioles. Dumb trade.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Even if you think Hammel is underrated, you don't trade Guthrie for him, you find some spare parts and lower level C prospects the Rockies like and make a deal that way. Like with Teagarden and Eveland, though Hammel would obviously cost a little bit more.

This trade makes zero sense to me.

Agree with this 100%. This seems like making a deal just for the sake of making a deal. Which undoubtedly means PA is involved. Any chance he was angry with the pre-arb negotiations and demanded DD make a deal?

[Sports Guy]

Lindstrom would be a nice upgrade for Gregg if Gregg was no longer on the team. Unfortunately, he is.

Not really...They are both usually good for an ERA in the 3.5-4 range. They both have shaky command. Lindstrom has ok K numbers but Gregg's are better.

[Dipper9]

As much as I like Guts, I have to wonder how Rockies fans feel? Imagine the trade was reversed and we got Guts back for those two. Would we be happy with that deal? I doubt it. We tend to over rate our own players, and while I am not at ALL happy with this trade, like someone else said, its probably a wash in the end. Guts is nothing special, and thus, we aren't gonna get a great haul for him, and keeping him isn't gonna do much for us either.

I wouldn't have made the trade, I'm not happy with the trade, but in the end, I don't think it hurts the Orioles much if at all.

[Sports Guy]

Any chance this could be part of a move to get Koji back? Especially if Gregg is part of the deal?

Is that supposed to make this deal more sensible? I like Koji and all but you don't make poor trades just to get back a good reliever for 1 year.

[REDMAN]

I see this really as Guthrie for Hammel with Lindstrom tossed in. One advantage is that Hammel is 3 years younger than Guthrie.

Hammel's has had an .829 OPS against at Coors vs. .763 away, so there is some Coors effect there, although Guthrie's number is better at .751. Guthrie has had a better quality start %. Hammels does have a better GB/FB ratio at 0.83 vs. Guthrie's 0.70, which makes the trade a bit surprising from Colorado's standpoint as well. Hammel's K% is slightly better, his BB% slightly worse. Hammels will be several million cheaper.

It's hard to really find a lot of silver lining in the trade. They aren't *that* different pitchers, but Guthrie is clearly better. Lindstrom is a ho-hum right handed reliever who's best attribute is the ability to keep the ball on the ground and not give up a lot of ding dongs.

Lindstrom has a 96mph fast ball and has closed games,Guthrie 15/32 in QS and Hammels 14/27 is even,Lindstrom was a high end prospect and closer with the Astros when he hurt his arm,this trade on paper benefits the orioles.Guthrie and Hammels needed a change of scenery.

[Baldimore, hon]

This is a dumb trade. I hope DD isn't done.

If these are the types of trades he makes, then I hope he's done. Good lord. Could we have done worse with this trade? It's hard to imagine.

[PrivateO]

My friend texted me "Guthrie for Lindstrom and Hamels."

I got ecstatic.

I come here, find out Hammel is on the Rockies, and I'm pissed. I just don't trust Dan Duquette and trading players. So far, every single one of his trades has been head-scratchers.

[CrimsonTribe]

Even if you think Hammel is underrated, you don't trade Guthrie for him, you find some spare parts and lower level C prospects the Rockies like and make a deal that way. Like with Teagarden and Eveland, though Hammel would obviously cost a little bit more.

This trade makes zero sense to me.

Right. I don't think the return was uneven, but Guthrie is not the player you trade for Hammel and Hammel is not the type of return a team like the Orioles needs for Guthrie.

[Sports Guy]

As much as I like Guts, I have to wonder how Rockies fans feel? Imagine the trade was reversed and we got Guts back for those two. Would we be happy with that deal? I doubt it. We tend to over rate our own players, and while I am not at ALL happy with this trade, like someone else said, its probably a wash in the end. Guts is nothing special, and thus, we aren't gonna get a great haul for him, and keeping him isn't gonna do much for us either.

I wouldn't have made the trade, I'm not happy with the trade, but in the end, I don't think it hurts the Orioles much if at all.

You are looking at this wrong. This has nothing to do with whether it hurts the Orioles at all.

The question is, how does it help us? We only save 1-2 million..so there is no real salary gain.

We obtain a reliever that isn't any better than any of the back end up guys we already have and he is making a lot of money.

We obtain a starter who has been pretty good in the past but is 29, only has 1 more year of service time than JG and is coming to a tougher division but one that he does know some from his time in TB.

If Hammel is what he was in 2009 and 2010 for the next 2 years, the Orioles have "won" this deal. If he has a big first half, its likely that his trade value would be higher than Guthrie's because of salary and service time.

But at the end of the day, the likely outcome is that he ends up being basically what Guthrie has been for us and he does it for one more year at a salary close to what Guthrie would earn for year as opposed to 2. But how does that advance the team? What difference does he make going forward for us? Even if he is a 4 WAR pitcher in each of the next 2 seasons, he isn't likely to extend here and you really shouldn't be all that excited giving a 3-4 year deal to a 30 y/o pitcher either. So, at best we may end up trading him or get back a pick or 2...both options that could have been there for Guthrie this season and with Guthrie, you basically know what you are going to get from him.

Its just a trade that makes little sense. While there is some upside to the trade, its basically a trade that does nothing for the team. It doesn't save you much money, you didn't clear a spot in the rotation for a young pitcher and you didn't obtain anyone who has potential long term value.

So, why did you do it?

[paulcoates]

Orioles waited too long to move Guthrie

Guthrie, on the other hand, will be the Rockies’ No. 1 starter, enabling the club to ask less of their 25-and-under rotation candidates – right-handers Jhoulys Chacin, Juan Nicasio and Alex White, lefty Drew Pomeranz, etc.

Guthrie is their #1? What happened to Ubaldo?