Matt Angle DFAed

[atomic]

It really is. You can't tell me that there are 40 more valuable players. I don't understand how he was chosen to DFA over guys like Berken or even Bell. It's true that his skills were limited, but it's also true that this hurts our OF depth in the minors, which was already suspect.

Yeah it doesn't make sense. But when does anything the Orioles do make sense when it comes to having a quality ball club?

I would have liked Angle in center and move Jones to left and Reimhold to DH

[atomic]

Nothing to see here, folks.

In fact, I'd venture to say that if DD signed Matt Angle from another organization this site would be up in arms about a no-hit 5th OFer with the overrated asset of useless speed.

Speed is an overrated asset? That is the first I heard of that. I wonder why teams dont' just put their slowest player in centerfield.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Yeah it doesn't make sense. But when does anything the Orioles do make sense when it comes to having a quality ball club?

I would have liked Angle in center and move Jones to left and Reimhold to DH

Matt Angle isn't a starter for any major ball club. Even ours.

[Frobby]

Considering that we are considered to be one of the worst teams in the majors and to have a relatively weak farm system, it's interesting that there are other teams who have a space on the 40-man roster for guys we have booted off. Of course, we have to use two spots on Roberts and Bundy, and Flaherty has a spot even though he could end up being returned at the end of spring training. I really wonder what our 40-man is going to look like on April 6, as we have several guys on it who are out of options and may not pass through waivers.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Considering that we are considered to be one of the worst teams in the majors and to have a relatively weak farm system, it's interesting that there are other teams who have a space on the 40-man roster for guys we have booted off. Of course, we have to use two spots on Roberts and Bundy, and Flaherty has a spot even though he could end up being returned at the end of spring training. I really wonder what our 40-man is going to look like on April 6, as we have several guys on it who are out of options and may not pass through waivers.

Well as far as Angle goes, no AL team wanted him and NL teams have more bench flexibility on the 25 man. That plays more in Angle's favor considering his limited skills. It will be interesting to see how ST performance plays out in forming the roster. I would think DD's pickups might have some advantage over some of the holdovers.

[atomic]

Considering that we are considered to be one of the worst teams in the majors and to have a relatively weak farm system, it's interesting that there are other teams who have a space on the 40-man roster for guys we have booted off. Of course, we have to use two spots on Roberts and Bundy, and Flaherty has a spot even though he could end up being returned at the end of spring training. I really wonder what our 40-man is going to look like on April 6, as we have several guys on it who are out of options and may not pass through waivers.

I am sure there our guys on our 40 man roster that will be able to pass through waivers easily. I feel Jai Miller won't get picked up, for example.

[Enjoy Terror]

2011

Batters who hit last year: ~650

Batters with 200+ PAs: ~350

Of these, those with SLG% < .350: ~75

Of these, those with a bWAR > 1.0: 16. (none more than 3.0)

Of these those with an OBP > .320: 5. (our own Robert Andino makes this cut)

It's very difficult to be a contributor with Matt Angle's skill set. I could see him looking very similar to the year Ben Revere had.

[DrungoHazewood]

Yeah it doesn't make sense. But when does anything the Orioles do make sense when it comes to having a quality ball club?

I would have liked Angle in center and move Jones to left and Reimhold to DH

Speed is an overrated asset? That is the first I heard of that. I wonder why teams dont' just put their slowest player in centerfield.

Wow, that's a completely ridiculous set of posts. Angle is arguably a nice 4th or 5th outfielder, but he's a 26-year-old who has never OPS'd .700 in AAA. He'd have to be a plus-plus centerfielder and steal bases at a very high rate to become even an average MLB center fielder.

Speed is certainly overrated. Yes, you need someone with adequate speed to cover center field. But teams like last year's Cardinals have won the World Series with essentially no regular players with plus speed. Albert Pujols led all Cardinal regulars in stolen bases last year.

Jai Miller is probably not much of a hitter, but he's also projected by several sources such as ZIPs to be much better than Angle, and he's reputed to be a very good fielder, too. The O's have not lost much here. Someone else already said this, but I think it's true that if Angle had been a DD acquisition instead of someone he let go the board would be savaging him for acquiring someone with such a limited upside. If Duquette had traded Luis Noel for some other org's Matt Angle we'd have a 44-page thread calling for torches and pitchforks.

[Frobby]

Speed is certainly overrated. Yes, you need someone with adequate speed to cover center field. But teams like last year's Cardinals have won the World Series with essentially no regular players with plus speed. Albert Pujols led all Cardinal regulars in stolen bases last year.

You could find teams who have won the World Series without a great hitter, too. Is hitting overrated?

I don't think speed is overrated. But speed by itself doesn't get you very far. Angle was no more than a 4th/5th OF. His upside is probably to be another Endy Chavez (.686 career OPS) with better stolen base skills. I'm just skeptical of Miller because his K rates have been very high in the minors, and that usually gets worse once a player reaches the majors.

[atomic]

Wow, that's a completely ridiculous set of posts. Angle is arguably a nice 4th or 5th outfielder, but he's a 26-year-old who has never OPS'd .700 in AAA. He'd have to be a plus-plus centerfielder and steal bases at a very high rate to become even an average MLB center fielder.

Speed is certainly overrated. Yes, you need someone with adequate speed to cover center field. But teams like last year's Cardinals have won the World Series with essentially no regular players with plus speed. Albert Pujols led all Cardinal regulars in stolen bases last year.

Jai Miller is probably not much of a hitter, but he's also projected by several sources such as ZIPs to be much better than Angle, and he's reputed to be a very good fielder, too. The O's have not lost much here. Someone else already said this, but I think it's true that if Angle had been a DD acquisition instead of someone he let go the board would be savaging him for acquiring someone with such a limited upside. If Duquette had traded Luis Noel for some other org's Matt Angle we'd have a 44-page thread calling for torches and pitchforks.

The cardinals also got about .750 ops from their centerfielders last year. The orioles need to improve on fielding and obp. If you want the Orioles to mimic the Cardinals they will need to improve quite a bit. Improved fielding would be a start. That is why Jones should not play centerfield and reynolds should not be on third.

[olehippi]

You could find teams who have won the World Series without a great hitter, too. Is hitting overrated?

I don't think speed is overrated. But speed by itself doesn't get you very far. Angle was no more than a 4th/5th OF. His upside is probably to be another Endy Chavez (.686 career OPS) with better stolen base skills. I'm just skeptical of Miller because his K rates have been very high in the minors, and that usually gets worse once a player reaches the majors.

I agree with this. Speed is not overrated because it is one of the "tools" scouts look for. But it's an asset only if it's accompanied by most or all of the other tools that involve hitting and fielding. I'd say that Angle is a 3-tool player missing the (very important) hitting skills.

Jai Miller had what might be called a "breakout" year in AAA last year, but all it got him was DFA'd by Oakland. I really have no clue what he might bring to the Orioles, if anything.

[Enjoy Terror]

I can't find a single thread in any Dodgers message board about their thoughts on the Matt Angle pick up. It's probably because it's not a big deal, and he's not that great of a player. Plus Matt Kemp.

[Frobby]

Melewski caught up with Angle: http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2012/02/angle-says-thanks-on-his-way-out-of-town.html

Very classy guy, as always.

[DrungoHazewood]

You could find teams who have won the World Series without a great hitter, too. Is hitting overrated?

That's not much of an analogy. The vast majority of World Series winning teams were good hitting teams, almost all above average in hitting. That would imply hitting is extremely important to winning. But if you look at common speed-related metrics like stolen bases, triples, they have almost no correlation to winning. In modern baseball steals are probably negatively correlated to winning.

I don't think speed is overrated. But speed by itself doesn't get you very far. Angle was no more than a 4th/5th OF. His upside is probably to be another Endy Chavez (.686 career OPS) with better stolen base skills. I'm just skeptical of Miller because his K rates have been very high in the minors, and that usually gets worse once a player reaches the majors.

Don't disagree with anything here, except the first sentence. Speed is often overrated because people look at a guy with a .700 OPS and 50 steals and almost automatically assume he's better than a similar player with a .700 OPS and 5 steals. That's not necessarily true.

I think speed becomes one of those BS dumps, almost an intangible that is used to justify otherwise unjustifiable decisions. Think of the talk about Roberts and Angle, and how they could be valuable off the bench because they could be used as pinch runners. Oriole pinch runners scored 12 runs last year, the entire league saw 160 runs scored by pinch runners, or about one out of every 100 runs. Speed is a nice-to-have, but it's often treated as crucial.

[DrungoHazewood]

The cardinals also got about .750 ops from their centerfielders last year. The orioles need to improve on fielding and obp. If you want the Orioles to mimic the Cardinals they will need to improve quite a bit. Improved fielding would be a start. That is why Jones should not play centerfield and reynolds should not be on third.

Jones should play left if the combination of all of the attributes of (Jones + a left fielder) is less valuable than all of the attributes of (Jones in left + a center fielder). I have serious doubts that Angle and Jones is a more valuable combination than Jones and Reimold. Angle is unlikely to much more than a replacement level player, while both Jones (in center) and Reimold were better than that in 2011, with good hope for at least some improvement in '12.

Back-of-the-napkin I'd guess that putting Jones in left and Angle in center would cost the O's a couple of wins they'd get with Jones in center and Reimold in left.