Mussina elected to Orioles Hall of Fame! (Also Dauer and Youse) w/Mussina reaction

[BaltimoreTerp]

I'd suggest that the Blue Jays are a bigger "rival" to the O's than the Yankees are. 1989 still resonates with me and we've been much more the Jays' equal the last 15 years than we've been the Yankees' equal.

Coincidentally, the rivalry was further heightened by Cito Gaston's reluctance to put in Mike Mussina in the 1993 All-Star Game.

Plus, by the playoff years Cleveland was a major (if outside the division at that point) rival, between the playoff series and the drama around the football team. Would anyone keep Roberto Alomar out of the Orioles Hall of Fame (longevity questions aside) because he signed with the Indians in 1999?

[Floater]

Some angry brats in this thread haha

[waroriole]

I addressed the situation where a player leaves his current team to join a rival team and the fan's right to feel betrayed by that. Again, I don't really care if he is in or not, but anytime a similar situation occurs, you're going to see a similar reaction. The fact that a lot of fans do resent his action should have been considered prior to his entry into the O's HoF.

I hear you. I'm not going to get into the whole "rivalry" thing, as that has been addressed on here. From my perspective, this is almost entirely the fault of Angelos. That doesn't mean that I wasn't livid with Mussina when he left, but over the years I can understand why he left. I think most fans, when hearing the entire story of Angelos and his negotiation tactics, feel the same way. Also, I would imagine that fan resentment was considered, but probably over-ridden by the phenomenal performance he gave us while he was an Oriole.

[Tony-OH]

Plus, by the playoff years Cleveland was a major (if outside the division at that point) rival, between the playoff series and the drama around the football team. Would anyone keep Roberto Alomar out of the Orioles Hall of Fame (longevity questions aside) because he signed with the Indians in 1999?

This whole "The Yankees aren't our rivals" thing is one of the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread. There's a reason why most Orioles fans hate the Yankees above all others and it has no bearing on how many seasons we were competing with them for a pennant. The Yankees have been, and always be the evil ones from the North who buy their way to their pennants. The Yankees fans (and now the Red Sox fans as well) are the ones that invade Camden Yards and act obnoxiously, not Blue Jays or Indians fans.

We may hate the Blue Jays or Indians or Brewers (back in the early 80's) for a few years, but the Yankees, and now the Red Sox since they crossed over into the mercenary level of payrolls are the hated teams.

The one constant in Orioles fandom throughout the years is the hatred for the Yankees. To claim other wise is naive.

[bOhs01]

This whole "The Yankees aren't our rivals" thing is one of the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread. There's a reason why most Orioles fans hate the Yankees above all others and it has no bearing on how many seasons we were competing with them for a pennant. The Yankees have been, and always be the evil ones from the North who buy their way to their pennants. The Yankees fans (and now the Red Sox fans as well) are the ones that invade Camden Yards and act obnoxiously, not Blue Jays or Indians fans.

We may hate the Blue Jays or Indians or Brewers (back in the early 80's) for a few years, but the Yankees, and now the Red Sox since they crossed over into the mercenary level of payrolls are the hated teams.

The one constant in Orioles fandom throughout the years is the hatred for the Yankees. To claim other wise is naive.

Hatred doesn't make it a rivalry. We have had far too little meaningful games against them to make it a rivalry. You can hate them all you want but that doesn't make it a rivalry between the teams.

[DrungoHazewood]

This whole "The Yankees aren't our rivals" thing is one of the most ludicrous thing in this entire thread. There's a reason why most Orioles fans hate the Yankees above all others and it has no bearing on how many seasons we were competing with them for a pennant. The Yankees have been, and always be the evil ones from the North who buy their way to their pennants. The Yankees fans (and now the Red Sox fans as well) are the ones that invade Camden Yards and act obnoxiously, not Blue Jays or Indians fans.

We may hate the Blue Jays or Indians or Brewers (back in the early 80's) for a few years, but the Yankees, and now the Red Sox since they crossed over into the mercenary level of payrolls are the hated teams.

The one constant in Orioles fandom throughout the years is the hatred for the Yankees. To claim other wise is naive.

Maybe this isn't unique to Baltimore, but New York teams have always been hated. Going back to the 1890s Boston and New York were huge rivals of the Orioles. Baltimore fans hated New York even more when the Brooklyn Superbas stole 80% of the team in 1899, and it got worse when the Orioles basically moved to New York to become the Yanks in '03. This isn't just some passing thing, like you say we've hated New York forever, and the Yanks since for a century+.

[sangar]

Before moving to New York, weren't the Yankees the Baltimore Orioles? I wonder how much of the Orioles' fans hatred for the Yankees is ingrained historically. You know, grampa hated them because they moved, dad hated them because grampa did, etc...

[sangar]

Maybe this isn't unique to Baltimore, but New York teams have always been hated. Going back to the 1890s Boston and New York were huge rivals of the Orioles. Baltimore fans hated New York even more when the Brooklyn Superbas stole 80% of the team in 1899, and it got worse when the Orioles basically moved to New York to become the Yanks in '03. This isn't just some passing thing, like you say we've hated New York forever, and the Yanks since for a century+.

Beat me too it, rep.

[Tony-OH]

Hatred doesn't make it a rivalry. We have had far too little meaningful games against them to make it a rivalry. You can hate them all you want but that doesn't make it a rivalry between the teams.

That's semantics. Call it what you want, the Yankees may not be our competitive rival anymore because Angelos has run this franchise into the ground and we haven't competed with them for anything since 1998, but they are still our most hated rival. A rival is someone we compete against.

This is like the Steelers saying they didn't have a rivalry against the Raven because they had won 6 of the last 8 meetings until this year when we swept them. That was bunk, just like saying the Yankees are not our rivals is bunk. We may not be a rival to the Yankees and their fans, but true Orioles fans hate the Yankees and always root against them. I really never hated the Blue Jays, Indians or Brewers. I wanted to beat them like I wanted to beat any other team that went against the Orioles, but there was never a burning dislike of them because they were just like us, a team competing with normal means and trying to win.

[waroriole]

I think everyone hates the MFY. Whether you're a Red Sox fan, an Orioles fan or an Astros fan. You either love them or hate them. They're similar to Duke in that regard.

[flashjordnk]

I guess Raffy's decision to take steroids shouldn't bear on whether he gets into the O's HOF?

Also, I've said repeatedly that I don't hold personal disdain against Mussina, which to me is equivalent to not hating him. But yes, my preference for him not to be in the HOF stems in part from his decision to join the Yankees apart from some other team.

So Palmerio's doing steroids and Mussina leaving via Free Agency are now being compared? I mean...don't you see how this feels like it gets out of hand pretty quickly?

[atomic]

I think everyone hates the MFY. Whether you're a Red Sox fan, an Orioles fan or an Astros fan. You either love them or hate them. They're similar to Duke in that regard.

I don't hate or like Duke.

[atomic]

Before moving to New York, weren't the Yankees the Baltimore Orioles? I wonder how much of the Orioles' fans hatred for the Yankees is ingrained historically. You know, grampa hated them because they moved, dad hated them because grampa did, etc...

I don't know my Father was born in NYC and certainly didn't hate the Yankees. I guess it started with Reggie Jackson for me. They are sort of like the Darth Vader of sports.

[Goop]

I was as crushed as anyone when Moose left. Besides Cal and Brady, he was my favorite player growing up. At the time he left, my sister was in college and her roommate and family were all Yankee fans, so I had to listen to them spew their crap when he signed...it sucked.

I hate the fact that the days of Cal and Tony Gwynn are over and no one stays with the same team their entire career; it sucks. That being said, Moose deserves to be in. And I hope to hear cheers for him when he's inducted, not boos. We are Baltimore Oriole fans, some of the best in baseball still, in spite of the last 14 seasons.

[Scrat1]

Accidently voted no. I think he definitely deserves to be in.