Duquette and the Pennant: This Time It's Personal

[mi_oriolesfan]

Honestly, I want Duquette do whatever needs to be done to win. Preferably in this fashion:

[El Gordo]

FWIW, Jim Duq has said on XM that there have been no discussiona at the GM level on Greinke. He also is adamant that they won't be trading Machado and Bundy, and they are not going after Garza. I think his contacts are pretty valid.

[Fan4Life]

FWIW, Jim Duq has said on XM that there have been no discussiona at the GM level on Greinke. He also is adamant that they won't be trading Machado and Bundy, and they are not going after Garza. I think his contacts are pretty valid.

We need Greinke and Braun... how do we get that done?

[Guest rochester]

Every year I hear people talk about not wanting to "trade the future" for a win now approach. Guess what, that "future" we never traded away has seen us play under .500 ball for 14 straight years. Some Orioles fans have become so reluctant to part with the "future" that they get upset when we trade away C-type prospects for guys who can help us this year (Evelnad, Teagrden, Thome) even if the chances of those prospects turning this franchise around were slim to none. In the minors right now we have two untouchable pieces in Bundy and Machado, and probably three very reluctant (Hoes, Schoop and Delmonico) pieces. At the major league level Wieters and Jones should be the only untouchables.

At the end of the day, I'm glad we finally have a GM who is willing to risk some of the "future" to win now. Obviously this has to be delicately because you don't want a ton of rentals, but it's time for the Orioles to show they can make a run and that they are players again. Even if we comes up short, and this is still a very flawed team, this will hopefully help this offseason when I expect Duquette to be very active on not only the free agency market, but the trade market.

Last time I checked, the future is not producing very well whether it be recent draft picks (outside of out untouchables) or the Calvary. That's not to say we don't have some players that can be part of a playoff team here in Baltimore, but it does mean I'm going to support Duquette if he moves some it in order to acquire players that will help the Orioles break 14-years of suckitude.

Let's make a run this year, and then show the players who can be part of a long-term core the money.

I was going to say the exact same thing but am glad to leave it to a professional. I mean, I cringe whne I hear the word "Percolate." If anyone say "Let's see where the market goes" I make them sit in the corner with a dunce hat on. I don't believe DD will do anything stupid. Of course I could not understand the drama over the Thome trade. IF (a big if) we happen to get close or even make the playoffs I would much rather have Jim Thome waiting on the bench than Ronny Paulino, if for no other reason than the other manager may actually think for a minute about BP strategy.

[ChicagoBird]

Count me among those who would not trade Schoop + Matusz/Arrieta for a few months of Grienke. I'm thrilled that the O's would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, but the likelihood of us making the playoffs in three months, even with Grienke, are incredibly small. This roster simply has too many holes. We're 18-26 since May 20. That's a 66-win pace for more than a quarter of the season.

If you could lock up Grienke, then it may be worth considering, but without an extension it's nuts to throw away that kind of talent for a 10 percent chance of going to the playoffs this year.

[Guest rochester]

http://www.masnsports.com/school_of_roch/2012/07/how-far-should-the-orioles-go-to-make-a-deal.html

I've been pretty vocal about not chasing rentals or giving up real value for (what I consider to be) a largely speculative run at the playoffs.

But this makes me even more uneasy. Just as I wouldn't want Buck to burn out an arm in pursuit of redemption, I don't think Duquette's need to redeem himself should play any part in what we do this off-season (even if it's admittedly hard to avoid from a personal perspective). Thoughts?

I don't agree with wanting to make a splash in his first year back equals trying to redeem himself. If I was PA I want someone who is smart but also has the attitude that he will do what it takes to win both now and in the future. AM would have driven me nuts - plus, PA sees the increase in attendance and the $$ with it.

[canonfaz]

Say that Duquetter really did "go for it" this year. What would it look like? Trading for Greinke and Headley. What would it take to land those two? Could we get them both without giving up Machado and Bundy?

[Fan4Life]

Count me among those who would not trade Schoop + Matusz/Arrieta for a few months of Grienke. I'm thrilled that the O's would be in the playoffs if the season ended today, but the likelihood of us making the playoffs in three months, even with Grienke, are incredibly small. This roster simply has too many holes. We're 18-26 since May 20. That's a 66-win pace for more than a quarter of the season.

If you could lock up Grienke, then it may be worth considering, but without an extension it's nuts to throw away that kind of talent for a 10 percent chance of going to the playoffs this year.

Your point is valid, but the supporting arguments not necessarily so. You can pick any team and find a period of time where they'd finish horribly if they played at that pace all year. Also, is our schedule the same the next 45 days as it has been the last 45? We have faced some of the better pitching in both leagues over that period of games. Is that likely to continue?

That doesn't mean we'll perform any better, but using the last 44 games to predict the next 44 really isn't apples to apples.

[TonySoprano]

How many times were they above .500 at the break under Andy MacPhail, who should receive a check in the mail each time another executive lets the market play out?

The answer to that is found here, which is only two times since 1998.

Sure we're in the rumors for Greinke, but until a deal is made, this talk of making a "huge cannonball splash" is just that, rumors, and Roch's speculation.

After folding our cards in 2005, I appreciate a team willing to try to make a run at things. I'd like to think that Duke is realistic and won't do anything major-league stupid in a fool's pursuit of a deep playoff run in 2012.

[soxhotcorner14]

A pipe dream? Why woudl it be that? I just dont see DD making a deal for Zack where there is not an extension. IMO

There will be an extension. If Grienke isn't open to an extension then this trade will never happen. I think all parties involved know that going into it. This isn't Vinny Cerrato we are talking about here boys.

For all the people that think that DD can't get it done. He traded for Pedro Martinez. He gave up Pavano and Tony Armas Jr as well as another guy I can't remember. Pavano was a can't miss in our organization. Would you give up Pavano for Martinez? Same scenario here. You have to give something to get something of value.

[soxhotcorner14]

Say that Duquetter really did "go for it" this year. What would it look like? Trading for Greinke and Headley. What would it take to land those two? Could we get them both without giving up Machado and Bundy?

I absolutely believe you can get Grienke without surrendering your two best prospects. You'll just have to add more quality player(s) to the trade. Hoes, Avery, Cavalry etc. (These are players i'm listing as "quality", not the actual trade proposal. I know how some love to play the dream up a trade game.)

[Trackmaster]

It all depends on what the market if offering. The Brewers have no use for him during this lost season, so the only leverage they really have is forgoing the sandwich round comp pick that they'd get when another team signs him. If nobody else is offereing rediculous prospects, I could see giving away a few project players.

[Leitch]

They don't get a comp pick, right? They trade him or get nothing?

I think he costs less than others because he's a rental. Unless you think he's willing to extend, you go for him as a free agent and focus more on a guy like Headley, because he's under contract for two more seasons. But him I wouldn't go buck wild for, either.

[crowmst3k!]

Sure, but he's not going to sign an extension.

It would take the Orioles paying Matt Cain money to get Greinke to stick around.

[MrOrange82]

They don't get a comp pick, right? They trade him or get nothing?

I think he costs less than others because he's a rental. Unless you think he's willing to extend, you go for him as a free agent and focus more on a guy like Headley, because he's under contract for two more seasons. But him I wouldn't go buck wild for, either.

Per MLBTradeRumors:

The Brewers could obtain two compensatory draft picks for losing Greinke to free agency, but no other team has the same opportunity under baseball’s new collective bargaining agreement.