Camden Depot's Shepherd: Failed Physicals and Testing the Orioles' Success

[russ snyder]

You can feel that way. The vast majority of players and agents don't, though. Bottom line is, rightly or wrongly, Balfour apparently feels Baltimore took millions of dollars and multi-year security out of his hands for unconvincing reasons.

I mean, don't we see most players acknowledge when medicals reveal something that is likely to bring down their value across the board? The problem comes when the player doesn't think his value should be knocked down.

In other words, if Balfour feels like he could have had 2/14 with the Yankees or whomever else, there's regret he ever spoke with Baltimore. The Napoli case is different in that Napoli clearly conceded the medical issues reduced his long term value, and he proceeded under that understanding.

If you are a pitcher in his thirties, you don't shut out Baltimore but you certainly think long and hard about giving them the first bite of the apple. How could you not?

Balfour has made it very clear that he has been slighted. After all, he told DD that the team showed him a "lack of respect." We'll see if he feels strongly enough to file a greivance against the club. Somehow, I doubt that he goes thorough with this. I think his bark is worse than his bite.

I acknowledged that Balfour may have legitimately felt blindsided by the O's medical staffs' determination. His value being knocked down is the price of doing business IMO. That's why there is a procedure to handles grievances in circumstances like this one. If Balfour gets less than his desired maket value, he can try to recover the money though this process.

I understand his regret, however, I understand the club's caution by relying on their medical staff's recommendation. I think the release of Balfour's comments to DD refelect that the team may have some regret in negotiating with him as well. Right, Napoli was most likely not blindsided by the news of his medical condition. He apparently wanted to sign with Boston, and he did not burn the bridge by publicly burning the bridge like Balfour did.

Absolutely. This is the price that the Orioles may pay for conducting their business like this.

[Stotle]

This is a fact. So you are saying, that if Napoli, did not agree, the Redsox, would be the difficult, laughing stock organization, that you say the Orioles are now?

The Orioles are working off the advice of their experts. To do otherwise and had Balfour blew his elbow out in the spring, you would be the first person to question the organization and come up with quotes from inside sources, that say the Orioles went against the doctors advise to sign Belfour and now the O's are stuck with a 15m contract, because they don't listen to experts, what a bad organization.

A slight overstatement, but yeah if Napoli thought the Red Sox torpedoed a deal for no good reason it would have been a big story.

The second paragraph is a strawman. The issue being discussed isn't whether or not a team should have experts, and whether or not they should listen to the guidance of the experts.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

Again .... if your going to have a higher standard than the norm then why the hell are you pursuing a guy who is 35+ with a history of shoulder issues?

If this is the standard you want for your organization thats ok. If it is though then Balfour never should have been on their radar. His issues are no secret. One set of facts (Balfours history) does not jive with the other (Oriole standards).

Thats were the failure occured and you can bet your bottom dollar that people in the industry are smart enough to see that

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4

So it is the Orioles fault. They have a standard ( whatever that is ). They stuck to it. Balfour knew about this standard, as did his agent. They agreed to a deal pending a physical. Per the known strict Oriole standards, he failed. Somehow this is an Oriole problem?

[NJ BIRD FAN]

A slight overstatement, but yeah if Napoli thought the Red Sox torpedoed a deal for no good reason it would have been a big story.

The second paragraph is a strawman. The issue being discussed isn't whether or not a team should have experts, and whether or not they should listen to the guidance of the experts.

I don't think it would have been much of a story at all and had it been a story, it would have sent away quickly. Just like this one will. ( nationally, not on this board )

[Stotle]

I don't think it would have been much of a story at all and had it been a story, it would have sent away quickly. Just like this one will. ( nationally, not on this board )

Well alrighty.

[NJ BIRD FAN]

It's a problem because something happened during this negotiation in which Balfour felt disrespected. Look at the Jurrjens deal that fell through - we didn't hear him raise a stink. His people probably agreed what the Orioles found was reasonable and he took a minor league deal.

Something else happened here.

Maybe he is an idiot?

[Stotle]

Maybe he is an idiot?

That's certainly possible. He's not a loved guy between the lines.

[Stotle]

It will go away nationally eventually, but the agents of players will remember. It hurts the Orioles in free agency and player extensions going forward.

Remember how no one wanted to be the manager or GM a few years ago? Buck and DD were both pulled out of retirement because no one wants to work for a dysfunctional organization. Fortunately, in recent years, the player environment has been great. But once again, the business aspect is embarrassing.

Tough spot because perception actually matters when it comes to folks in the industry. It affects what scouts will work for you. It affects whether a player feels a desire to extend as he's approaching free agency. It affects whether a player wants to take the plunge and move his family to a new city to play for your team. It all matters.

[Number5]

Due respect, you are missing the point. I know this because you have yet to accurately restate the point.

Respectfully, I have addressed your comments that the Orioles handled this more publicly than the Red Sox handled the Napoli situation, and your comments that the major difference in the 2 cases is that the Orioles are wrong because Balfour disagrees with the Orioles' doctors. I think I have very sufficiently addressed both issues. I was responding directly to your comments, and I don't see any way to construe that I misunderstood the meaning of those comments.

[SteveO]

So it is the Orioles fault. They have a standard ( whatever that is ). They stuck to it. Balfour knew about this standard, as did his agent. They agreed to a deal pending a physical. Per the known strict Oriole standards, he failed. Somehow this is an Oriole problem?

Well that is a silly response lol.

It seems clear that neither Balfour or his agent were aware or I doubt very seriously they would have put themselves through this. Its not as if Balfour concealed his shoulder issues. Its public knowledge.

Yes it is the O's fault. If you want to have higher standards thats fine but then you cant go and pursue a 35+ y.o guy with a history of shouldet issues and act shocked he does not meet your standards. Thats just disingenous

The O's clearly know their standards

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 4

[russ snyder]

It's a problem because something happened during this negotiation in which Balfour felt disrespected. Look at the Jurrjens deal that fell through - we didn't hear him raise a stink. His people probably agreed what the Orioles found was reasonable and he took a minor league deal.

Something else happened here.

He must have not felt that "disrespected". After all, he was on board with the two year deal.

Yeah. The Orioles backed out of the two year deal because of the reults of the physical. Balfour probably feels "disrespected" because he backed off his desire for a three year deal and agreed to a two year deal that fell apart, thus affecting his market value.

To the bolded, what else could have happened? They had a deal that fell through, I find his whole disrespect comments a bit troubling. Plus, since he obviously has no problem speaking his mind, I wish he would explain how anything other than his market value has somehow disrespected.

[Stotle]

Respectfully, I have addressed your comments that the Orioles handled this more publicly than the Red Sox handled the Napoli situation, and your comments that the major difference in the 2 cases is that the Orioles are wrong because Balfour disagrees with the Orioles' doctors. I think I have very sufficiently addressed both issues. I was responding directly to your comments, and I don't see any way to construe that I misunderstood the meaning of those comments.

I mean, you just mistated it again. It isn't a matter of handling it more publicly, comparative to other teams. The issue is standards applied to the medicals, and the public handling of a potential signing comparative to your medical standards.

I don't know if the Orioles were wrong. I think public perception across the game is that Baltimore didn't handle this well at all.

[Flosman]

You can still request the medicals from his previous team. Which the Orioles apparently did not do, because they would have seen that his previous MRI was already insufficient for them, seeing as it looks identical to his current MRI.

Unless Balfour agrees in writing the O's do not have access to prior medicals. Most of this is done on representations made by the player in the negotiating process. The O's would not have been able to get out of the contract offer unless the medicals were materially different then represented by the players side. If Belfour said during the negotiations, "you know my shoulder is trashed and I don't know how I keep pitching", and the O's still made the offer the O's would not be able to rescind the offer. By the O's pulling the offer legally it let's you know the exam showed a condition worse than Belfour's side had represented during the negotiation, or at least worse than the O's thought was represented to them. The O's accepted some potential liability when they balked and surely did not do this haphazardly. PA understands the law and has competent people working the legal side of things.

[BradyBunch]

Where were they when Wada signed? How about Albert Belle? And how about Dylan Bundy as a recent example? He was barely in the organization for a year before coming down with an injury that required Tommy John. A five year ML contract and a $4 million signing bonus? Why didn't they see that coming?

Wada, who knows what happened. Belle is the reason why the O's do a lot of homework on player. Bundy's injury was a small one that morphed in to a larger one because the world renown Dr. Andrews screwed the pooch and wasted time trying "new" treatments for a flexor strain. Dr. Andrews misread the MRI. It happens. But it was the O's medical staff that caught the injury and pushed for TJ surgery for Bundy after Bundy followed Dr. Andrews' orders. But Bundy and O's missed 3 months of recovery because of Dr. Andrews mistake.

So there is always more to the story.

[Hallas]

A slight overstatement, but yeah if Napoli thought the Red Sox torpedoed a deal for no good reason it would have been a big story.

The second paragraph is a strawman. The issue being discussed isn't whether or not a team should have experts, and whether or not they should listen to the guidance of the experts.

The problem here is that there's nothing the O's can say to deny the existence of a deal that would actually be convincing. If I'm not mistaken, Balfour himself confirmed the agreement. However, an agreement is always "pending physical" and everyone and their mother surely knows that the O's are a lot more careful with their physical than other teams. Balfour put us in this spot, and now he's giving the O's a black eye because the O's (whether rightfully or wrongly) backed out due to his medicals. The problem with this scenario is that that O's have zero opportunity to defend themselves. They cannot release the medicals that caused them to flunk him. So the only thing the public has to go by is Balfour's own cherry-picked medicals.

In my opinion, Balfour has a lot more to lose by missing this contract than Napoli, which is why Balfour raised a stink and Napoli didn't. Shoulder injuries are notoriously ominous for pitchers. Albert Belle notwithstanding, most hip injuries are recoverable conditions. Furthermore, Napoli has another contract waiting for him if he has an off year due to injury. Balfour's window is closing due to his age.

I'm not denying the fact that the O's might have an overzealous medical team. I'm not even denying that Angelos might be an a-hole when it comes to free agent pitchers. It's clear, however, that Balfour is not entirely blameless, nor is he (or any of his doctors) a neutral party in this dispute. And he is free to take potshots at the O's without any risk of return fire. And everyone will remember that the O's backed out at the 11th hour, but no one will remember if he blows his arm out in the middle of next season. And 80% of the reason for that is because everyone loves the red sox, and no one likes the Orioles.