Bundy throws 4 perfect innings

[Il BuonO]

I guess I'm conservative. Maybe too much so. I don't see a lot of teams treating their prized pitching prospect in the manner the O's have treated Gausman. I don't particularly care that he isn't being ruined; I would like to see the organization place a higher premium on doing what's best for him and his development, rather than using him to plug holes they failed to otherwise account for.

I don't see an organizational approach similar to St Louis or Tampa Bay yet that says we are going one way or another, but I understand the concern.

After watching Gausman I would say there have been incremental gains. Maybe you really are more in favor of seeing a swap with the Cubs than you are even aware.

[DrungoHazewood]

I think you are over-analyzing. He can throw 98 mph. It's about fastball control. Can you locate where you want to? Gausman never had good control was never projected to have good control and probably never will have good control.

Gausman has averaged 2.6 BB/9 in the majors, 2.1 in the minors. He has a 3.4:1 K:BB ratio in the majors, 4.3 in the minors. All of those numbers are better than MLB average during his first few hundred professional innings. But you're acting like he's Mitch Williams or Daniel Cabrera.

[Stotle]

Haven't the Cardinals employed similar strategies with guys Wacha and Miller (among others)? Are those guys/situations not comparable ? I guess I'm just not opposed to putting guys out there in these short durations as part of an iterative/evaluation process.

Our development has been a mixed bag (ok a poor bag) but it also seems to me we've had a few guys do very well in AAA only to find out they didn't really have the tools to succeed in the majors as starters. This is part of my concern with developing AAA pitchers and Gausman kinda falls in there for me.

I think the Cardinals felt that Wacha was ready. They gave him a short stint when a spot in the rotation temporarily opened up (similar to Sonny Gray), and then he was promoted for good later that summer.

Miller got a cup of coffee at the end of 2012 and then was called up for good in 2013, where he was used consistently as a starter.

I'm not sure either as particularly comparable to Gausman, unless I am missing something.

Regarding Triple A development, that's on the organization. It's up to your baseball guys to teach baseball, and to assess when your skill set is ready to tackle the big leagues. It's not an developmental challenge inherent in developing talent whilst parked in Norfolk. If guys are being promoted and proving to be ill-equipped to succeed, that's the fault of the front office and the dev staff.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think the Cardinals felt that Wacha was ready. They gave him a short stint when a spot in the rotation temporarily opened up (similar to Sonny Gray), and then he was promoted for good later that summer.

Miller got a cup of coffee at the end of 2012 and then was called up for good in 2013, where he was used consistently as a starter.

I'm not sure either as particularly comparable to Gausman, unless I am missing something.

.

No situations are exactly identical. They were both used as relievers (and starters) to help the team late in the year. Miller wasn't exactly dominant in AAA and is regressing this year. Lynn was initially employed as a starter and then as a reliever. I guess you could argue that Wacha was just far superior in terms of stuff as to not be comparable.

Regarding Triple A development, that's on the organization. It's up to your baseball guys to teach baseball, and to assess when your skill set is ready to tackle the big leagues. It's not an developmental challenge inherent in developing talent whilst parked in Norfolk. If guys are being promoted and proving to be ill-equipped to succeed, that's the fault of the front office and the dev staff

This part I agree with and I think it's been a weakness. Unfortunately I am still seeing issues here, especially with Gausman. Besides the slider, why are they so fixated on having this guy throw 4 seam fastballs at the bottom of the zone? For whatever reason, i get the feeling that the developmental staff feels somewhat limited with this guy.

[Stotle]

No situations are exactly identical. They were both used as relievers (and starters) to help the team late in the year. Miller wasn't exactly dominant in AAA and is regressing this year. Lynn was initially employed as a starter and then as a reliever. I guess you could argue that Wacha was just far superior in terms of stuff as to not be comparable.

This part I agree with. Unfortunately I am still seeing issues here, especially with Gausman. Besides the slider, why are they so fixated on having this guy throw 4 seam fastballs at the bottom of the zone?

Just to be clear, the point is that the Cardinals promote their arms when they are ready to stick. If Gausman were used in the pen last year because there was no room in the rotation, that's completely different. But instead, whatever he was working on at Triple A was put on hold so that he could offer some value in relief before being returned to the minors to continue to work on stuff. There just aren't any parallels as to the developmental course, here.

It's almost as if Baltimore is seasoning Gausman to taste at Triple A -- sampling ever once in a while to see if things are where they need to be. In a nutshell, that's what's troubling me. Of course, perhaps the decision makers just see too stout a rotation for Gausman to break into? I guess if that's the case then I can't complain.

[weams]

Because a handful of pitchers (who have shown to be among the best in the game) succeeded, Gausman should too.

This is rubbish. No one is claiming that it is impossible for a pitcher to succeed without logging 300 MiLB innings. Just that it's not necessarily the best approach. This is shocking straw man territory for you, sir.

And comparing Guasman to Price? Really??????

I know many of the folks that observe the Orioles still have questions as to how pitching is handled. I know the fact that Kevin is not Chris Sale is disappointing to all of us. He still might be good though. I hope he is.

[Ruzious]

It obviously hurt his development at a minimum because it slowed his development. I can't see a reasonable argument on the other side of this. There isn't a believable scenario where Gausman's development was better facilitated by throwing out of the bullpen as opposed to starting, throwing more innings, and getting more experience in an environment conducive to development. This is apparent on his face, but blatantly so because the team has him in Triple A right now. If the pen was really the best place to develop him that's where he'd be to start this year.

I 100% in agreement that it is hyperbolic to say it ruined his development.

That's a very well stated opinion - though I don't completely agree. I apologize if I'm repeating what others have said, but I CAN see a reasonable argument on the other side - primarily that he gained experience pitching against major leaguers. Whether or not that completely offsets the negative that he was used in the pen is hard to say.

[Stotle]

I know many of the folks that observe the Orioles still have questions as to how pitching is handled. I know the fact that Kevin is not Chris Sale is disappointing to all of us. He still might be good though. I hope he is.

Sale was dramatically undersold in his draft class. He was a better draft prospect than Gausman. Matt Harvey would have been the Gausman comp from that class, in my humble opinion, from the standpoint of risk/reward profile.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Just to be clear, the point is that the Cardinals promote their arms when they are ready to stick. If Gausman were used in the pen last year because there was no room in the rotation, that's completely different. But instead, whatever he was working on at Triple A was put on hold so that he could offer some value in relief before being returned to the minors to continue to work on stuff. There just aren't any parallels as to the developmental course, here.

OK.

i guess I'm not buying it that his relief time last year hindered his valued development time in AAA. My other point is that I'm not really liking what I'm seeing with his development at AAA or seeing in the majors. It looks to me like they developing a guy that they don't have great confidence in. I'm sure he will make a fine AAA pitcher. Not what I'm worried about.

It's almost as if Baltimore is seasoning Gausman to taste at Triple A -- sampling ever once in a while to see if things are where they need to be. In a nutshell, that's what's troubling me. Of course, perhaps the decision makers just see too stout a rotation for Gausman to break into? I guess if that's the case then I can't complain.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think we may somewhat agree here.

Forget the slider for a moment. Why this fixation on throwing 4 seam fastballs down in the zone? Why no 2 seamers down in the zone? Why no expanding all 4 quadrants of the strike zone with his 4 seam fastball. Is his FB command just that bad? That's the impression I'm getting. They don't think he's that good and have to narrow the funnel to make it easier for him.

[Stotle]

That's a very well stated opinion - though I don't completely agree. I apologize if I'm repeating what others have said, but I CAN see a reasonable argument on the other side - primarily that he gained experience pitching against major leaguers. Whether or not that completely offsets the negative that he was used in the pen is hard to say.

I can see the argument for there being a benefit to facing MLB hitters. But isn't that a polish issue and not really a developmental issue? I'd view that as trying to shorten a prospect's adjustment period, not something you do if you feel there are significant things to work on.

And again, maybe Baltimore doesn't think there are significant things to work on and they just want to keep him down 1) for team control reasons for now, or 2) because they really like the five starters they have. If that's the case, I retract what I said about not having a developmental plan.

[Stotle]

OK.

i guess I'm not buying it that his relief time last year hindered his valued development time in AAA. My other point is that I'm not really liking what I'm seeing with his development at AAA or seeing in the majors. It looks to me like they developing a guy that they don't have great confidence in. I'm sure he will make a fine AAA pitcher. Not what I'm worried about.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think we may somewhat agree here.

Forget the slider for a moment. Why this fixation on throwing 4 seam fastballs down in the zone? Why no 2 seamers down in the zone? Why no expanding all 4 quadrants of the strike zone with his 4 seam fastball. Is his FB command just that bad? That's the impression I'm getting. They don't think he's that good and have to narrow the funnel to make it easier for him.

It would be hard for me to believe they don't like him as a pitcher having less than two full years with him in the system and having spent overslot money on him at fourth overall. If that's the case there are management/leadership issues on the baseball side of things.

[weams]

I would expect Bundy to show that he has good fastball control. A top 3 pick should have that. Normally fastball control just doesn't appear out of the blue.

http://baseballprospectnation.com/2012/04/06/scouting-report-kevin-gausman-rhp/

This guy nailed the Gausman scouting. Emphasis on control and command just can't be fairywished with experience.

Yes. It was as good as you could do in 2012. It's almost 2015 now. There is more information available. Including the fact that Kevin has not broken down, and has shown some good progression.

[CA-ORIOLE]

It would be hard for me to believe they don't like him as a pitcher having less than two full years with him in the system and having spent overslot money on him at fourth overall. If that's the case there are management/leadership issues on the baseball side of things.

Well, ok, You were certainly right about Tillman, but you didn't answer any of my questions.

- Forget the slider for a moment. Why this fixation on throwing 4 seam fastballs down in the zone?

- Why no 2 seamers down in the zone?

- Why no expanding all 4 quadrants of the strike zone with his 4 seam fastball?

- Is his FB command just that bad?

- Why is this guy being constrained rather than opened up.

Am I off off base? Because I'm seeing Jonathon Papelbon at the moment and not Kevin Brown. Not that there's anything wrong with having Jonathon Papelbon (minus the personality issues)

[CA-ORIOLE]

Yes. It was as good as you could do in 2012. It's almost 2015 now. There is more information available. Including the fact that Kevin has not broken down, and has shown some good progression.

injuries aside, I have the impression that most everyone views Bundy has having the greater pitchability and upside potential. I have seen very little of Bundy and can easily make that assessment. JMO of course.

[Stotle]

Well, ok, You were certainly right about Tillman, but you didn't answer any of my questions.

- Forget the slider for a moment. Why this fixation on throwing 4 seam fastballs down in the zone?

- Why no 2 seamers down in the zone?

- Why no expanding all 4 quadrants of the strike zone with his 4 seam fastball?

- Is his FB command just that bad?

- Why is this guy being constrained rather than opened up.

Am I off off base? Because I'm seeing Jonathon Papelbon at the moment and not Kevin Brown. Not that there's anything wrong with having Jonathon Papelbon (minus the personality issues)

I don't know the answer to your questions if that is truly the developmental focus. His two-seamer is a weapon. He shouldn't have to throw the four-seamer much at all except when ahead in the count and usually when he can elevate and go for pure velocity to get a swing out of the zone or set up the change-up.

Gausman is lanky but athletic with an easy arm; he should be able to develop average or better command.