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This is A Mess (Mega RANT Thread)

eddie83

By eddie83
in Orioles Talk

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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I hear ya. I personally think about 5-10 of us are on the pragmatism team where we call a spade a spade good or bad, but that "team" certainly doesn't get any press during the rants here.

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I know some folks view any defense of the FO a sign of blind allegiance.

I know some folks that take any criticism of Buck as a personal attack.

Both groups bore me.

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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I'm fairly sure you're wrong. This was argued and settled in another thread a few weeks ago. His status shows that he is out of option years right now and he hasn't been down since 2013 other than rehab starts.

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He was called up in 2010, finished the season with team.

2011 got hurt late in year to my knowledge never sent out.

He was sent out in 2012 and 2013. I thought one time on here I made the same argument you did about him being out of options for 2014 and he wasn't.

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Stotle Hangout Grand Counsel

Stotle

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I agree that he will do that with Bundy, but he hasn't failed and regressed over 4 years in the majors. I think it became "what am I playing games with him for if he can't mentally pitch here". He certainly looked like a guy with a mental issue the last 2 seasons. It was really obvious. I've never seen someone adjust their hat and uniform so compulsively. He doesn't do that now.

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Let's call a spade a spade. Duquette had one year with Arrieta. What happened before then is only partly relevant. The Orioles were coming off of a playoff appearance and Duquette was gambling that the huge upside just wasn't going to materialize in Baltimore, and he lost that bet. I think it's really that simple. He wanted to upgrade the 25-man and moving Arrieta was what he settled on. It wasn't his only choice and it might not have been his best choice.

Arrieta's failures in Baltimore are not on Duquette. But fans that were ready to cut bait had a six-year relationship with the guy -- Duquette, 1.5 seasons by the time the trade occurred. If he was relying on in-house opinions as to Arrieta's history and the likelihood Arrieta would figure things out, those in-house voices got it wrong. I'm not wringing my hands over it -- shake it off and move on. Be happy MacPhail wound up getting the offensive equivalent by landing Davis (and Hunter).

I just don't see why this situation is either "Duquette made one of the all-time blunders" or "Duquette did the only logical thing he possibly could." The reality isn't either of those narratives.

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theobird All-Star

theobird

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I don't even know how to respond to this obvious sidestep of how to handle the situation regarding Arrieta so I'll just say "ok" and thanks for all the effort to answer this honestly. We screwed up and we shouldn't have. Hard to argue with that. LOL

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OK then. at least you get it now.

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eddie83 Hangout Grand Counsel

eddie83

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http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=arriet001jak

You're right that he went on the 40 man in 2010. His 3 option years were used in 2010, 2012, and 2013. He wasn't eligible for a 4th year because he spent way more than 90 days on a ML 25 man roster. He was out of options in 2014.

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Hate to keep harping on this but it says here that Arrieta's contract was selected from Norfolf in June of 2010. If that is true and I understand it correctly that means he wasn't on the 40 man roster until then. I don't think an option was used in 2010. http://baltimore.orioles.mlb.com/team/transactions.jsp?c_id=bal#month=6&year=2010&team_id=110

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Uli2001 Hangout Grand Counsel

Uli2001

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Arrieta would never pan out in Baltimore. The NL is a pitcher-friendly league, and together with the change of environment this allowed him to find himself. It would never have happened in Baltimore. We should feel good that by letting him go, the Orioles actually helped him have a career.

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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Arrieta would never pan out in Baltimore. The NL is a pitcher-friendly league, and together with the change of environment this allowed him to find himself. It would never have happened in Baltimore. We should feel good that by letting him go, the Orioles actually helped him have a career.

It is conceivable that the increase in the size of the strike zone had an out-sized effect on his performance.

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theobird All-Star

theobird

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I don't even know how to respond to this obvious sidestep of how to handle the situation regarding Arrieta so I'll just say "ok" and thanks for all the effort to answer this honestly. We screwed up and we shouldn't have. Hard to argue with that. LOL

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OK, just for clarity. I think Jake had one more option year left. But even if he did not, look at what they have done the last several years with rule 5 picks. Now, I like Flaherty as a super sub, and I think Garcia may have some value down the road. TJ? Not so much. But do I think any of them have the upside of Jake Arietta and Pedro Strop? No, I don't. And no I did not at that time either.

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SteveO Veteran All-Star

SteveO

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It is conceivable that the increase in the size of the strike zone had an out-sized effect on his performance.

Yea I have wondered about this myself. Jake was a guy who seemed to "just miss" the strike zone a lot and tended to get into holes as a result of that.

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