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Have the O's ever had a more talented position player than Manny Machacdo?


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Good point. Great defensive player and hitter. Didn't have Manny's power though. May have been faster.

"May" have been faster? The guy stole 474 bases at an 80% success rate. He was much faster than Manny. The Orioles didn't have him run nearly as much as he did on the other teams for whom he played.

"Talent" is a hard thing to measure. If one guy has more speed and hits for a better average, while the other has a better arm and hits for more power, who has more talent? If one guy is a little better in four of the five tools, but the other has a really big advantage in the fifth tool, who has more talent? All I can say is, Manny is very talented and I don't see any former Oriole who is head and shoulders above him.

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"May" have been faster? The guy stole 474 bases at an 80% success rate. He was much faster than Manny. The Orioles didn't have him run nearly as much as he did on the other teams for whom he played.

"Talent" is a hard thing to measure. If one guy has more speed and hits for a better average, while the other has a better arm and hits for more power, who has more talent? If one guy is a little better in four of the five tools, but the other has a really big advantage in the fifth tool, who has more talent? All I can say is, Manny is very talented and I don't see any former Oriole who is head and shoulders above him.

Albert Belle was more "Talented." So was Jim Thome. Manny might turn out better than any of them though. Even Eddie and Cal. We just don't know for 17 more seasons.

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It is hard to look at Cal's 2 MVP's, Robinson's 2 MVP's and Palmer's 3 Cy Young's and honestly think that Manny has more talent than those guys when being compared to their peers. Cal redfin ed what a shortstop should look like. Robinson was a MVP in two leagues. Palmer hit a grand slam, but never gave up one. Brooks seemed to win every gold glove and attend every All Star game for almost 2 decades. He is on the short list for the best defensive third baseman of all time. Mike Mussina, Eddie Murray, and Ben McDonald jump out to me as being special in the talent department as well. There are very few teams in baseball with our history of top flight Hall of Fame level talent.

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Manny's a great talent coming off of a great year, but I think folks should take a step back when comparing him to all-time greats. I remember people saying Justin Upton was the next Barry Bonds. Manny could very well become an all-time great, but he's had issues with health, maturity, and occasionally losing concentration on defense. I'll wait another year before mentioning him in the same breath with Frank Robinson, et al.

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Albert Belle was more "Talented." So was Jim Thome. Manny might turn out better than any of them though. Even Eddie and Cal. We just don't know for 17 more seasons.

Thome was not more talented when he was a Oriole.

Bell was a better hitter for one year as an Oriole but his range in the outfield was poor. Overall I think Manny is a better player than what Bell was as an Orioles.

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Again not comparing careers. Just talent level.

If were talking talent level I'd say Manny over all but Frank. What he does with it remains to be seen. He's a better 3B than Brooks but he lacks the incredible focus that Brooks had. Maybe he'll develop it. Cal's best year was age 30 when he hit .323 .374 .566 .940 I think Manny can do better than that except for maybe the BA.

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Alomar was amazing, but didn't leave a legacy because he wasn't here that long.

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I did not understand the rules. I did not understand that it was natural talent and that it was only what was evidenced while an Oriole. I go back to my original of the four Hall guys and Grich. And I subtract Baylor or Buford.

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Thome was not more talented when he was a Oriole.

Bell was a better hitter for one year as an Oriole but his range in the outfield was poor. Overall I think Manny is a better player than what Bell was as an Orioles.

I don't think your question was crystal clear as to whether we were to judge the player by how they were when they were with the Orioles. In one sense, "talent" is innate, and it's just that skills erode with age and injuries. By that way of looking at it, by the way, Eric Davis was one of the most talented players ever to play for the Orioles, though age and injury kept him from performing to his talent level when he played with us. Same with Vlad Guerrero, he was ridiculously talented.

On the other hand, if you want to define talent as the tools the player had when playing for the Orioles, then I don't think Belle, Davis, or Guerrero hold a candle to Manny.

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