Roch: Matusz Traded (along with draft pick)

[Can_of_corn]

I want you to stop a second and actually think about this.

So you honestly think a second round pick is only worth 90k? Remember the #14 pick was worth around 20M.

The price of a win is 8M, the league minimum salary is over 500k and you think a second round pick is only worth 90K?

[LookitsPuck]

Hell, the slot alone is $800k+. I am really curious where that $90k number came out of.

[Roll Tide]

I want you to stop a second and actually think about this.

So you honestly think a second round pick is only worth 90k? Remember the #14 pick was worth around 20M.

The price of a win is 8M, the league minimum salary is over 500k and you think a second round pick is only worth 90K?

Are either of the guys we got worth a 2nd round pick or is the cost of the pick Matusz' salary?

Anyone want to make a wager on the Padres signing him after he clears waivers?

[Can_of_corn]

Hell, the slot alone is $800k+. I am really curious where that $90k number came out of.

I am guessing the majority of teams would gladly pay 90k for 800k in pool money room.

[Can_of_corn]

Are either of the guys we got worth a 2nd round pick or is the cost of the pick Matusz' salary?

Anyone want to make a wager on the Padres signing him after he clears waivers?

Still haven't delved into their careers to date. They are both 16th round senior signs from what I have read. Those guys don't generally turn into much.

[sportsfan8703]

Are either of the guys we got worth a 2nd round pick or is the cost of the pick Matusz' salary?

Anyone want to make a wager on the Padres signing him after he clears waivers?

Seems like the type of move the Tigers or Jays would make. It would probably be best for him to go somewhere with available innings and a big ballpark. He's LH. He doesn't have to do much to get a FA contract next year.

[SteveA]

Than why give him up for a comp pick?

To me that is the simple test, how valuable can these two be for the Braves to rate a pick as being more valuable than the two players and millions.

We are basally hoping the Braves grossly mis-evaluated their own players.

Isn't that the case in any deal? You give up X to get Y. Obviously the other team thinks X is worth more than Y or they wouldn't make the deal. You are hoping or believing that isn't the case.

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[25 Nuggets]

I had a huge problem giving up the #14 pick to sign Gallardo. I'm OK with losing #76, getting rid of Matusz and his salary, two decent pitchers back, and a roster spot. While I agree DD deserves to take some heat for losing draft picks, these moves are not remotely comparable.

This is the closest post in an extensive thread to how I feel. In the end it'll depend on if the team gets anything out of the prospects, top 30 or not.

[wildcard]

Really can't understand why anyone would want to give Dan a hard time about his player moves. The O's appear playoff bound for the 3rd time in 5 years. That's in large part because of Dan. Buck and Dan discussion every move before it happens. I am sure Buck knew what Dan was doing with Matuez and the Draft pick long before it happened. And IMO Buck approves.

In spite of what many think Peter and John Angelos are not stupid. They know what they have in Dan. He's a guy that puts a winning team together every year and does it within the budget the O's can afford. I think that Dan gets an extension after the 2017 season and a promotion to President of Baseball Operation along with the boost in salary that goes with it. He will continue to do the GM job. Buck also will be offered an extension but whether the takes it or not may depend on whether he wins the World Series in the next two years. He wants to be in the Hall IMO.

I was surprised that the O's salary after deferrals was 138m this year. That is about 8m more than what I expected. Getting 2.88m back for Matuez is a reasonable thing to do the way Dan manages. Matusz has been an asset to the O's from 2013-2015. He fit the LOOGY role well though Buck is not that fond of lefties that can't get righties and lefties out. Still Buck got good value out of him facing tough lefties.

The fact that he started poorly this year, he is a free agent after the season and that O's could get both salary relief and prospects that the O's liked back sealed his fate IMO.

People that worry about the farm system really shouldn't IMO. 28% of their 25 man roster are players with under a years MLB service. Rickard, Bundy, Wilson, Wright, Givens, Kim and Toliver all fit that description. And not all of them came from the O's farm. The O's still have a top 30 draft choice. The one the got for Chen.

I agree with the posters that have made the case that Dan trades for players that other organizations don't value but somehow Dan see value in and some of them work out for the O's. Gunkel, Lee, Richard Rodriguez are just some of the most recent.

So after suffering through 14 years of the Angelos trying to figure out how to win in Baltimore, I think they figured it out. Dan and Buck are the reason for the O's winning and neither is going anywhere until they want to retire IMO. The Angelos know what they have and like their guys a whole lot.

[25 Nuggets]

Really can't understand why anyone would want to give Dan a hard time about his player moves. The O's appear playoff bound for the 3rd time in 5 years. That's in large part because of Dan. Buck and Dan discussion every move before it happens. I am sure Buck knew what Dan was doing with Matuez and the Draft pick long before it happened. And IMO Buck approves.

I'll give Dan a hard time for a bad move - doesn't mean he's "one of the five worst GMs in baseball" or the like. Signing Yovani Gallardo was a bad move. Just plain bad. Getting him for a lower price still makes it bad.

And, he deserves credit for good moves. Trading for Mark Trumbo was a good move. Perhaps not maximized (Trumbo at 1B or DH) but still good. A number of guys are getting paid two to three times his salary for the same production or less.

[hoosiers]

I don't mean for Can of Corn to carry the load here alone, but I have mostly stopped posting here so I do not bring too much negativity to the board.

I am waiting for our next GM. This one has burned our minor league system to the ground propping up a major league team who core he inherited. DD's primary advantage over most GMs is his full commitment to cash in every last resource in a death march to push the major league team forward while letting other teams spend more on the US draft, spend more internationally. It is an unsustainable method of team building and I dislike it with a passion.

[wildcard]

I'll give Dan a hard time for a bad move - doesn't mean he's "one of the five worst GMs in baseball" or the like. Signing Yovani Gallardo was a bad move. Just plain bad. Getting him for a lower price still makes it bad.

And, he deserves credit for good moves. Trading for Mark Trumbo was a good move. Perhaps not maximized (Trumbo at 1B or DH) but still good. A number of guys are getting paid two to three times his salary for the same production or less.

Too soon IMO to know what the O's have in Gallardo. He commands a lot of pitches and while he does not have the fastball that he used to have, there are pitchers that do well without one. Did you see what Weaver did to the O's the other night. He was throwing pitches at 64 mph. I will wait to make a judgement on whether Dan screwed that one up.

[hoosiers]

Really can't understand why anyone would want to give Dan a hard time about his player moves. The O's appear playoff bound for the 3rd time in 5 years. That's in large part because of Dan. Buck and Dan discussion every move before it happens. I am sure Buck knew what Dan was doing with Matuez and the Draft pick long before it happened. And IMO Buck approves.

In spite of what many think Peter and John Angelos are not stupid. They know what they have in Dan. He's a guy that puts a winning team together every year and does it within the budget the O's can afford. I think that Dan gets an extension after the 2017 season and a promotion to President of Baseball Operation along with the boost in salary that goes with it. He will continue to do the GM job. Buck also will be offered an extension but whether the takes it or not may depend on whether he wins the World Series in the next two years. He wants to be in the Hall IMO.

I was surprised that the O's salary after deferrals was 138m this year. That is about 8m more than what I expected. Getting 2.88m back for Matuez is a reasonable thing to do the way Dan manages. Matusz has been an asset to the O's from 2013-2015. He fit the LOOGY role well though Buck is not that fond of lefties that can't get righties and lefties out. Still Buck got good value out of him facing tough lefties.

The fact that he started poorly this year, he is a free agent after the season and that O's could get both salary relief and prospects that the O's liked back sealed his fate IMO.

People that worry about the farm system really shouldn't IMO. 28% of their 25 man roster are players with under a years MLB service. Rickard, Bundy, Wilson, Wright, Givens, Kim and Toliver all fit that description. And not all of them came from the O's farm. The O's still have a top 30 draft choice. The one the got for Chen.

I agree with the posters that have made the case that Dan trades for players that other organizations don't value but somehow Dan see value in and some of them work out for the O's. Gunkel, Lee, Richard Rodriguez are just some of the most recent.

So after suffering through 14 years of the Angelos trying to figure out how to win in Baltimore, I think they figured it out. Dan and Buck are the reason for the O's winning and neither is going anywhere until they want to retire IMO. The Angelos know what they have and like their guys a whole lot.

You realize that if DD were never hired, that if the great ship Orioles had been drifting with only a scouting department, that our current rotation would be something along the lines of Arrieta, Tillman, Gausman, EdRod and perhaps Davies/Wright or someone else and that we would still have Wieters/Joseph, Davis, Schoop, Hardy, Machado and Jones plus Britton and O'Day. We could add a top 100 prospect in Hader to our minor league system along with about five top draft picks.

In DD's time here, how many players has he found that have produced over 2 WAR over at least two full seasons?

[wildcard]

You realize that if DD were never hired, that if the great ship Orioles had been drifting with only a scouting department, that our current rotation would be something along the lines of Arrieta, Tillman, Gausman, EdRod and perhaps Davies/Wright or someone else and that we would still have Wieters/Joseph, Davis, Schoop, Hardy, Machado and Jones plus Britton and O'Day. We could add a top 100 prospect in Hader to our minor league system along with about five top draft picks.

In DD's time here, how many players has he found that have produced over 2 WAR over at least two full seasons?

Most of the players you just mentioned are Orioles. The reason Arrieta was traded was more about Buck trusting Connor and Adair with the O's pitching staff. Davies is a 155 pound starter who has a 5.75 ERA so far this year. Who knows if he will have the stamina to make it in the majors. ERod has a knee problem. And a setup I believe. Seem to have a lot of talent though. I iike Hader but Houston liked him so much they traded him.

Dan does trade prospects. There is not denying it. But he also wins. And that has felt pretty good over they last 5 years. His track record suggests he will win as long as he is with the O's.

[Chavez Ravine]

He gave 2.5M for one of those 90K draft picks.

He must be awful.

I haven't seen any evidence that spending that money on middling draft slots inherently offers any better returns than spending it on AAAA players or marginal, but established minor leaguers.