O's management and former O's pitchers

[Nevermore]

I had a nightmare the other day. I dreamed that Ubaldo got traded to the White Sox to help out his old pal Gonzo. I was thinking about all of the starting pitchers who O's management gave up on. They were released or traded to another team.

Let's start with Jake Arrieta. I think that most O's fan wanted him gone as badly as they now want Ubaldo gone. Management traded him. He went to the Cubs and, voila! Cy Young winner, no hit games, and being the Cubs ace.

Next we come to Bud Norris. He struggled mightily during the 2015 season. Management put him into the pen and then released him. He spent a few months in Mop-Up Land with the Padres and the Braves. And then, Lo and Behold -- he's a member of the Braves starting rotation. Braves traded him to the Dodgers and he's still doing just fine in their rotation.

Then there is Gonzo, Miguel Gonzalez. Management unceremoniously released him at the end of spring training. He signed a minor league contract with the White Sox, and then spent time in their own Mop-Up Land in the majors. Now he's a part of their starting rotation and like Bud, he's doing quite well.

So that's why I'm having nightmares about Ubaldo being DFA'd and released. Then he signs a minor-league contract with some other team. He stays in Mop-Up land, then ends up joining their rotation. And becomes an ace.

So my question is -- is this normal? Or is O's management giving up on their starting pitchers so soon when they struggle?

[LA2]

7/31:White Sox right-hander Miguel Gonzalez took the no-decision despite tossing seven innings of two-run ball (only one of the runs was earned), scattering six hits and one walk with five strikeouts. Unfortunately the bullpen could not hold on for him. This has been the story of the season for both Gonzalez and fellow pitcher Jose Quintana, who have pitched outstandingly but haven't gotten the wins to match their quality starts. Especially so with Gonzalez, whose 2-5 record is pitiful compared to his fantastic stretch here. He has seen increased success through more usage of his cutter, and really looks to be a sustainable arm for the South Siders. Pretty nice for a guy they signed on a Minor League deal before the season started. Fantasy owners, please take note.--Nick Mariano - RotoBaller

http://www.rotoballer.com/player-news/miguel-gonzalez-demands-your-attention-upping-cutter-usage-has-yielded-six-straight-quality-starts/332322

I really wish the Orioles would stop screwing up and/or throwing away starting pitchers. One would think that they had learned to do better from their rather ludicrous run of bad decisions.

[TINSTAAPP]

How many threads were you creating about Gonzo when he gave up 16 runs in a three game stretch to the Tigers, Red Sox and Blue Jays a couple months ago?

[sportsfan8703]

I guess since Matusz got rocked last night we have to dig up a Miguel Gonzales story. Stuff just gets lame.

[sportsfan8703]

I had a nightmare the other day. I dreamed that Ubaldo got traded to the White Sox to help out his old pal Gonzo. I was thinking about all of the starting pitchers who O's management gave up on. They were released or traded to another team.

Let's start with Jake Arrieta. I think that most O's fan wanted him gone as badly as they now want Ubaldo gone. Management traded him. He went to the Cubs and, voila! Cy Young winner, no hit games, and being the Cubs ace.

Next we come to Bud Norris. He struggled mightily during the 2015 season. Management put him into the pen and then released him. He spent a few months in Mop-Up Land with the Padres and the Braves. And then, Lo and Behold -- he's a member of the Braves starting rotation. Braves traded him to the Dodgers and he's still doing just fine in their rotation.

Then there is Gonzo, Miguel Gonzalez. Management unceremoniously released him at the end of spring training. He signed a minor league contract with the White Sox, and then spent time in their own Mop-Up Land in the majors. Now he's a part of their starting rotation and like Bud, he's doing quite well.

So that's why I'm having nightmares about Ubaldo being DFA'd and released. Then he signs a minor-league contract with some other team. He stays in Mop-Up land, then ends up joining their rotation. And becomes an ace.

So my question is -- is this normal? Or is O's management giving up on their starting pitchers so soon when they struggle?

Lame. Let's bring up Schilling and Harnisch. At least they were good.

[DrinkinWithFermi]

I think y'all are missing the OP's point, which is, I believe, that the Orioles' organizational philosophy regarding the cutter during DD's tenure has been hella dumb.

If so, I completely and enthusiastically agree.

[TINSTAAPP]

It's funny how nobody ever points out the elephant in the room. You have a team that plays in one of the smallest stadiums in the majors located in a city that gets very humid during the summertime in the best hitting division in the majors. The Orioles will never have consistent pitching as long as the dimensions of Camden Yards remains as small as it is.

[LA2]

How many threads were you creating about Gonzo when he gave up 16 runs in a three game stretch to the Tigers, Red Sox and Blue Jays a couple months ago?

ERA: 4.06 with an FIP of 3.92. Six straight QS's, man, six. I guess it took him a few starts to figure out a new approach unfettered by Oriole regulations.

[Joeyloetz]

I understand what you are saying, but I'm not concerned about our play at home its the road games that we have to improve on

[DrinkinWithFermi]

Daniel Cabrera!

Oh, wait...

[TINSTAAPP]

ERA: 4.06 with an FIP of 3.92. Six straight QS's, man, six. I guess it took him a few starts to figure out a new approach unfettered by Oriole regulations.

Gonzo has a 4.06 ERA and 3.92 FIP because he has an unsustainable Home Run to Fly Ball rate of 8.7% that is well below his career norms. Do you really think he would have a HR/FB rate of 8.7% pitching at Camden Yards?

[Nevermore]

Daniel Cabrera!

Oh, wait...

Oh yes, I remember Daniel Cabrera. Shortly after he left the team, I went into my "Orioles Fan Exile" and so I've missed a lot of earlier examples. Such as Curt Schilling and Pete Harnisch.

And yes, OPACY has small dimensions, more friendly to hitters than pitchers. But then there are the road games, as Joeyloetz has pointed out.

Yet, even without these earlier examples, I still see a pattern.

[Nevermore]

http://www.rotoballer.com/player-news/miguel-gonzalez-demands-your-attention-upping-cutter-usage-has-yielded-six-straight-quality-starts/332322

I really wish the Orioles would stop screwing up and/or throwing away starting pitchers. One would think that they had learned to do better from their rather ludicrous run of bad decisions.

That's what I was thinking when I started my other thread, though I wasn't thinking specifically about the cutter. Perhaps the two threads can be combined.

[LA2]

It's funny how nobody ever points out the elephant in the room. You have a team that plays in one of the smallest stadiums in the majors located in a city that gets very humid during the summertime in the best hitting division in the majors. The Orioles will never have consistent pitching as long as the dimensions of Camden Yards remains as small as it is.

Here are the Orioles' Home / Away Team ERA Splits since 2008:

2016: 3.73 (Home) / 4.81 (Away)

2015: 4.09 / 4.02

2014: 3.22 / 3.66

2013: 4.26 / 4.14

2012: 4.15 / 3.64

2011: 4.73 / 5.13

2010: 4.66 / 4.52

2009: 4.70 / 5.66

2008: 5.14 / 5.16

In 5 of the 9 years, the O's Home ERA was lower than their Away ERA, by a total of -2.9, or an average difference of -0.58 runs per 9 innings.

In the other four years, the O's Home ERA was higher by a total of 0.84, for an average difference of 0.21 runs per 9 innings.

It seems like your elephant in the park, much more often than not, is like an invisible extra man in the field behind O's pitchers.

[LA2]

Gonzo has a 4.06 ERA and 3.92 FIP because he has an unsustainable Home Run to Fly Ball rate of 8.7% that is well below his career norms. Do you really think he would have a HR/FB rate of 8.7% pitching at Camden Yards?

His career SLG-against at Camden Yards is lower than it is at either Chicago park, as well as at six other stadiums, including Yankee Stadium.