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Roch: Orioles picked to finish fourth or fifth in AL East


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18 minutes ago, backwardsk said:

The traded Shaw, right?  And how does Holt get playing time?

Sorry, I forgot--for Thornberg, who might help a lot as a set-up man. Holt's not the normal utility player. Plays all over the field and even last year he got almost twice as many plate appearances as Ryan Flaherty.

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48 minutes ago, weams said:

I can name all 5 games. We just needed more luck. Like in 2012 or 2014. 

Yes, and the Blue Jays are losing some major offense, so exactly how are they better than us? We will compete with the Yanks for second in the division IMO.

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4 hours ago, Frobby said:

On paper, the Red Sox will be the best team in the East going into the season.  But they don't play the games on paper.   I do think they're unlikely to score 878 runs again in 2017.    But they probably won't need to, either.  

Correct.  On paper, the Red Sox traded offense for pitching and with the defense they can field, Chris Sale is set to have an enormous year.  We thought that about David Price though too, didn't we?  (he was still a 3-win pitcher)

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4 hours ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Good breakdown.  Rep to you.  

What immediately jumps out to me is the that the AL Central has the best chance of getting two teams in because Chicago and Minnesota are in rebuilds.  

We're in the toughest division by far.  Our recipe for success(Bullpen and HR's) should have us in the mix come July 31st.  

Best case scenario for us is that we keep Trumbo and Tor losses Bautista and Saunders to non AL East teams.  Our SP could look a lot better without Ortiz, EE, Bautista, Saunders, Beltran etc.. in the division.  All of those guys have been Oriole killers.  

Thank you ^_^

You make a good point here.  With the unbalanced schedule, your in-division opponents make a difference.  So let's take a look:

OPS vs Baltimore Orioles (w/ career PA - 50 min.)

ADDITIONS

.958 Kendrys Morales (192)

.789 Matt Holliday (67)

.783 Mitch Moreland (138)

SUBTRACTIONS?

.998 Michael Saunders (176)

.902 David Ortiz (1086) - O.o

.891 Edwin Encarnacion (544)

.861 Jose Bautista (558)

.832 Carlos Beltran (322)

.717 Brian McCann (214)

.689 Logan Morrison (92)

.603 Darwin Barney (50)

.600 Ryan Hanigan (81)

------

To be fair, there will be young players to take the place of these guys and we don't know how they'll fare yet.  But it's a lot of relief for the Os pitching staff, especially their starting rotation.  Perhaps the best in-division addition so far, Wilson Ramos, will start the year injured.

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41 minutes ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Correct.  On paper, the Red Sox traded offense for pitching and with the defense they can field, Chris Sale is set to have an enormous year.  We thought that about David Price though too, didn't we?  (he was still a 3-win pitcher)

I can see the Red Sox as the team to beat in the East, but they are nowhere near the clear cut favorite. Yes, they added Sale, but they lost Ortiz. Sounds like a wash to me. Plus, do we expect their young guys to have the same type of season as last year?

Also, don't discount Toronto. They've only lost EE. Could still resign Bautista.

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32 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I can see the Red Sox as the team to beat in the East, but they are nowhere near the clear cut favorite. Yes, they added Sale, but they lost Ortiz. Sounds like a wash to me. Plus, do we expect their young guys to have the same type of season as last year?

Also, don't discount Toronto. They've only lost EE. Could still resign Bautista.

Fair question regarding Boston and yes, I expect most of their young guys to continue to play very well.  I am a believer in the new "Killer Bs" - namely Betts, Bradley and Boegarts - though Boegarts' defense is some cause for concern.  As for the rest, Dustin Pedroia is a mainstay, Hanley Ramirez still looks good and it looks like Pablo Sandoval went to see HanRam's nutritionist.  I think Sandy Leon regresses at C and Benintendi may need some help from Chris Young / Brock Holt in LF.  Overall, the loss of Ortiz probably docks them about 50 runs.  I think they can still score around 800, they just won't be +100 RS over the rest of the AL.

Toronto on the other hand I believe is in trouble unless they sign another bat (which they will).  Kendrys Morales is a finger in the dike.  They are looking at having Justin Smoak, Kevin Pillar and Ezequiel Carrera in their primary lineup.  Now, I really do believe they will bring back Bautista on a 1 yr deal.  That will change things quite a bit but they'd still be worse without EE and Saunders.

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1 hour ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Thank you ^_^

You make a good point here.  With the unbalanced schedule, your in-division opponents make a difference.  So let's take a look:

OPS vs Baltimore Orioles (w/ career PA - 50 min.)

ADDITIONS

.958 Kendrys Morales (192)

.789 Matt Holliday (67)

.783 Mitch Moreland (138)

SUBTRACTIONS?

.998 Michael Saunders (176)

.902 David Ortiz (1086) - O.o

.891 Edwin Encarnacion (544)

.861 Jose Bautista (558)

.832 Carlos Beltran (322)

.717 Brian McCann (214)

.689 Logan Morrison (92)

.603 Darwin Barney (50)

.600 Ryan Hanigan (81)

------

To be fair, there will be young players to take the place of these guys and we don't know how they'll fare yet.  But it's a lot of relief for the Os pitching staff, especially their starting rotation.  Perhaps the best in-division addition so far, Wilson Ramos, will start the year injured.

Well, Mookie Betts had our number last year. But I think a more experienced Gausman and Bundy for a full year and a healthy Tillman gives us a real solid 1-3. I actually like having Miley, I think he's a solid #4. You can drop names in a hat and probably get the same results for the 5th spot.

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1 hour ago, 25 Nuggets said:

Thank you ^_^

You make a good point here.  With the unbalanced schedule, your in-division opponents make a difference.  So let's take a look:

OPS vs Baltimore Orioles (w/ career PA - 50 min.)

ADDITIONS

.958 Kendrys Morales (192)

.789 Matt Holliday (67)

.783 Mitch Moreland (138)

SUBTRACTIONS?

.998 Michael Saunders (176)

.902 David Ortiz (1086) - O.o

.891 Edwin Encarnacion (544)

.861 Jose Bautista (558)

.832 Carlos Beltran (322)

.717 Brian McCann (214)

.689 Logan Morrison (92)

.603 Darwin Barney (50)

.600 Ryan Hanigan (81)

------

To be fair, there will be young players to take the place of these guys and we don't know how they'll fare yet.  But it's a lot of relief for the Os pitching staff, especially their starting rotation.  Perhaps the best in-division addition so far, Wilson Ramos, will start the year injured.

You consider Wilson Ramos a better addition than Chris Sale? Not saying your wrong, but that's interesting.

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28 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

Well, Mookie Betts had our number last year. But I think a more experienced Gausman and Bundy for a full year and a healthy Tillman gives us a real solid 1-3. I actually like having Miley, I think he's a solid #4. You can drop names in a hat and probably get the same results for the 5th spot.

Up. And In. Up. And In. Roger. 

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We can keep debating how good or bad the other teams are, that's fine.  I like the posts about who the division has lost, but let's not forget that it's not as if we're the only ones that are affected by that, too.  Boston losing Ortiz isn't just good for us, it's good for NY and Toronto, too. 

We aren't markedly better in any way, shape or form from last year.  We aren't totally worse either.  We weren't worldbeaters, so I'm not sure where the swagger from some posters is coming from.  

IMO, we'll go as far as Gausman, Bundy and Tillman can take us.  That's not a bad 3 but I'd rather have Boston's staff and probably Toronto's, too.  The NY staff sure isn't great and neither is Tampa's.

As it stands, the issues that plague the offense still remain the same....low OBP, prone to bashing 5 homers and scoring 12 runs on Tuesday night and then striking out 10 times and getting shut out on Wednesday.  As long as that continues, this team isn't going far.

There's a lot to do between now and spring training, don't forget that our offseason really starts somewhere around the third week of January.  

But we can quibble back and forth on here about what sexy ass platoon we'll have in RF, what to do about Mancini, how we'll keep some Rule V game changers on our roster, what to do about Gallardo and Jimenez, how Kim should be used, the saga of Joey Rickard and of course, the saga of Manny Machado...and on and on and on... 

Honestly though, 81 wins, 85 wins, 88 wins...doesn't matter.  This team isn't currently constructed for a deep postseason run unless everything breaks right, IMO.  I'm happy for another year above .500 and another season removed from 1998-2011 but I don't see a team that makes anyone lose sleep at night when the staff is unproven or over the hill and you can get about any hitter in our lineup to whiff on a low and outside slider.  

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13 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

We can keep debating how good or bad the other teams are, that's fine.  I like the posts about who the division has lost, but let's not forget that it's not as if we're the only ones that are affected by that, too.  Boston losing Ortiz isn't just good for us, it's good for NY and Toronto, too. 

We aren't markedly better in any way, shape or form from last year.  We aren't totally worse either.  We weren't worldbeaters, so I'm not sure where the swagger from some posters is coming from.  

IMO, we'll go as far as Gausman, Bundy and Tillman can take us.  That's not a bad 3 but I'd rather have Boston's staff and probably Toronto's, too.  The NY staff sure isn't great and neither is Tampa's.

As it stands, the issues that plague the offense still remain the same....low OBP, prone to bashing 5 homers and scoring 12 runs on Tuesday night and then striking out 10 times and getting shut out on Wednesday.  As long as that continues, this team isn't going far.

There's a lot to do between now and spring training, don't forget that our offseason really starts somewhere around the third week of January.  

But we can quibble back and forth on here about what sexy ass platoon we'll have in RF, what to do about Mancini, how we'll keep some Rule V game changers on our roster, what to do about Gallardo and Jimenez, how Kim should be used, the saga of Joey Rickard and of course, the saga of Manny Machado...and on and on and on... 

Honestly though, 81 wins, 85 wins, 88 wins...doesn't matter.  This team isn't currently constructed for a deep postseason run unless everything breaks right, IMO.  I'm happy for another year above .500 and another season removed from 1998-2011 but I don't see a team that makes anyone lose sleep at night when the staff is unproven or over the hill and you can get about any hitter in our lineup to whiff on a low and outside slider.  

I think the bolded sentence is the key.    The starting pitching could be anywhere from well above average to well below average.    If it's the former, we'll be legit contenders IMO.    The odds of that happening aren't that high, but it wouldn't shock me, either.    Playing some defense in the outfield would help.    Our staff last year looked worse than it actually was, due to the limited range of our outfielders.    

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