When do the O's fish or cut bait with Duquette and Showalter?

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, weams said:

Please understand, I do not think Duquette leave because he is not asked back. I think he leaves as did Andy MacPhail.

Slightly different situation, though.      Andy wanted some time off to be with his ailing father.      Duquette had ten years away from MLB, and would need to be pretty sure he had an equal or better job likely to come his way in order to turn down an extension.    I know Toronto coveted him, but they're not likely to be in the market now, and who knows what other owners think of Duquette?     Nobody wanted him for a decade, and his little game of footsie with the Jays may have turned off some other owners.    That said, he's been successful enough here that I'd guess there will be a market for him.    

[weams]

8 minutes ago, wildcard said:

It all depends on the money and control over the organization he is offered.

Why would you say that? 

[24fps]

9 minutes ago, weams said:

Please understand, I do not think Duquette leave because he is not asked back. I think he leaves as did Andy MacPhail.

Maybe with one exception.  Unlike Andy, I think DD dances a little jig on his way out the door, hampered only by all the new-found credibility weighing him down.  

[weams]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Slightly different situation, though.      Andy wanted some time off to be with his ailing father.      Duquette had ten years away from MLB, and would need to be pretty sure he had an equal or better job likely to come his way in order to turn down an extension.    I know Toronto coveted him, but they're not likely to be in the market now, and who knows what other owners think of Duquette?     Nobody wanted him for a decade, and his little game of footsie with the Jays may have turned off some other owners.    That said, he's been successful enough here that I'd guess there will be a market for him.    

I'm sure there is a GM market with his success and maybe even more. No. Not Toronto. 

[TouchemAll]

JMHO I think DD is history at the end of his contract he already tried to leave once.

My guess is that did not sit well with any Angelos and he'll be replaced whether he wants to stay or not at the end of the contract. . 

Buck I think stay's as long as he wants and just like the players I don't see the O's extending the contract till they are up. .

So while I agree it would be better to know sooner then later I don't think anything happens till the contracts end.

[TouchemAll]

17 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think that if you tell Dan you are blowing it up (which they won't do if they have a winning season) it wouldn't be hard to get him to step down.

Correct.

[weams]

1 minute ago, Roy Firestone said:

I may be in the minority but I think both Duquette and Buck have mostly done a very good job with the Orioles in their tenure. I think DD has made some very good moves and will always be criticized for losing Erod, Davies, and Miranda..and of course taking a deep shot with Ubaldo. I still think DD is one of the best  in his field but he is constrained by Angelos financially.

I think Buck is close to retirement...maybe 2019 will be his retirement.

Id rehire Duquette if I could, and Peter likes him...but I think he will leave.

Just my opinion.

To keep the Orioles competitive every year and in the playoff hunt every year is a tough thing to do with FA. But this team will look drastically different next year: No Tillman, Hardy(likely), Miley, Castillo(possibly), Kim, and looming FA battles will probably drop this club back for an upcoming season or two.But both Buck and DD deserve to be brought back..

You would have good knowledge of how both sides of that equation are thinking. 

[wildcard]

10 minutes ago, weams said:

Why would you say that? 

Because that is why he was interested in the Toronto job.   As President of Baseball Operations he who get more money and more control.

[wildcard]

18 minutes ago, TouchemAll said:

JMHO I think DD is history at the end of his contract he already tried to leave once.

My guess is that did not sit well with any Angelos and he'll be replaced whether he wants to stay or not at the end of the contract. . 

Buck I think stay's as long as he wants and just like the players I don't see the O's extending the contract till they are up. .

So while I agree it would be better to know sooner then later I don't think anything happens till the contracts end.

I don't agree at all.   Dan has made Peter a ton of money.  He helped turn the O's into winniers.  That helped build MASN which is about half the value of the Orioles.  Peter is all about money.  And I don't mean that in a negative way.   Its just how he will look at re-signing Dan.   Peter and I think John will be delighted if Dan stays IMO.   

And Dan will be delighted if he gets the money and control he wants.

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

I may be in the minority but I think both Duquette and Buck have mostly done a very good job with the Orioles in their tenure. I think DD has made some very good moves and will always be criticized for losing Erod, Davies, and Miranda..and of course taking a deep shot with Ubaldo. I still think DD is one of the best  in his field but he is constrained by Angelos financially.

I think Buck is close to retirement...maybe 2019 will be his retirement.

Id rehire Duquette if I could, and Peter likes him...but I think he will leave.

Just my opinion.

To keep the Orioles competitive every year and in the playoff hunt every year is a tough thing to do with FA. But this team will look drastically different next year: No Tillman, Hardy(likely), Miley, Castillo(possibly), Kim, and looming FA battles will probably drop this club back for an upcoming season or two.But both Buck and DD deserve to be brought back..

I don't think you're in the minority with that opinion, though the critics will always be the ones who state their views most often.    Neither one is perfect, and they haven't obtained the ultimate prize, but they've significantly raised the standard of what's expected of this organization.    I think Dan's record is a bit more of a mixed bag than Buck's, but he's made a lot of good small moves along the way.   And, we'll never know what things were either mandated or prohibited by the owner.    

[Sessh]

1 hour ago, PaulFolk said:

Except for, you know, the nine postseason games he's won, including six with the Orioles. Apparently those don't "really matter"?

In any case, I knew it was only a matter of time before this kind of nonsense cropped up.

Yes, clearly Buck lacks that managerial talent to win a World Series, a skill clearly possessed by tactical geniuses such as Ned Yost and Bob Brenly. "Gosh, if only we could have Ned Yost managing the Orioles!" said no one, ever.

I'm sure your theory holds plenty of water. Just like in 2014, where the Orioles swept the ALDS and then got swept in the ALCS. Clearly the simplest explanation is that Buck was a great manager in the ALDS and then suddenly forgot how to manage in the ALCS. Makes sense!

Or maybe, just maybe -- and bear with me here -- the postseason is largely a crapshoot, as evidenced by the fact that the best regular season team doesn't usually win? And the fact that anything can happen in such short series, where fluke plays and lucky breaks can decide a game?

..which are outweighed by the 14 postseason games he's lost and couldn't win a single game when he actually made it to the ALCS. So, the Orioles exited the postseason with a losing record despite the ALDS sweep. It's not nonsense, it's called facts. Showalter, no matter how good the team is he has, does not produce results in the postseason and by results, I don't mean getting swept out of the ALCS with the best team this franchise has had during his tenure here and making himself the laughing stock of baseball for not using Zach Britton last season which likely cost the Orioles 2-3 more innings to win the game.

Ned Yost made it to the World Series in back to back years. I'd take that over any and everything Showalter has done since he's been here especially considering they actually WON one and nearly won both.

Of course it holds water; his track record spells it out in giant neon letters. If the ALDS is the main goal for you, I guess we were champions that year! Woohoooo!

Well, Buck's teams always lose the "crapshoot" before actually making any significant impact once they get there. Why is it Buck's teams are just never up for the challenge? They're always the "cold" team unless it's the Tigers, I guess? He makes the same mistakes he made 20 years ago with the Yankees as evidenced last year against Toronto. He's a stubborn man set in his ways which virtually guarantees nothing will change. Sure though, let's just stick with the guy that, for whatever reason, doesn't motivate his teams in the postseason more than the other guys. He doesn't get the best out of his players when it really matters. Let's keep making excuses, though. That's much easier and far more sensible because a 20 year track record is insignificant. Let's also ignore the 14 losses and lack of any significant postseason success in favor of those nine wins, too.

[wildcard]

26 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

I may be in the minority but I think both Duquette and Buck have mostly done a very good job with the Orioles in their tenure. I think DD has made some very good moves and will always be criticized for losing Erod, Davies, and Miranda..and of course taking a deep shot with Ubaldo. I still think DD is one of the best  in his field but he is constrained by Angelos financially.

I think Buck is close to retirement...maybe 2019 will be his retirement.

Id rehire Duquette if I could, and Peter likes him...but I think he will leave.

Just my opinion.

To keep the Orioles competitive every year and in the playoff hunt every year is a tough thing to do with FA. But this team will look drastically different next year: No Tillman, Hardy(likely), Miley, Castillo(possibly), Kim, and looming FA battles will probably drop this club back for an upcoming season or two.But both Buck and DD deserve to be brought back..

I don't know why you think all those players are leaving.   Tillman with his injury will command much less on the FA market.  Maybe a one contract at 7m or less plus incentives.  There is no where Chris would rather be than the O's.  

Hardy?  The O's will not pick up the option at 14m but that does not mean he will not be  back.  He probably goes FA.  Then the  O's and he look if him coming back is the best move or is there someone better on the FA market.

Miley keep pitching like he is and the O's will pick up the 12m option.

Castillo could be back on a re-negotiated contract.

Kim and Ubaldo are gone.  Manny and Britton may be traded but both will bring back decent players in return.

[weams]

24 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Because that is why he was interested in the Toronto job.   As President of Baseball Operations he who get more money and more control.

Oh. Yeah 5x the money. Yes. 

[wildcard]

There is one thing that I don't see mentioned here.   Dan has a year left on his contract.  Peter is not letting him out of it to shop around.   If Peter offers him an extension his off season there is not competition.  Just Dan and Peter figuring out if the money, position and control is right.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, wildcard said:

There is one thing that I don't see mentioned here.   Dan has a year left on his contract.  Peter is not letting him out of it to shop around.   If Peter offers him an extension his off season there is not competition.  Just Dan and Peter figuring out if the money, position and control is right.

I think it has been proven that Dan will listen to offers even while still working with an employer.