Enough is enough, Tillman does not need another start

[bobmc]

Buck said Tillman will get another start #orioles (Per Roch below)

Dan Connolly:

Manager Buck Showalter saw signs of progress from Tillman despite the control-challenged outing.

“I thought his stuff was a little crisper,” Showalter said. “Fastball was pretty consistent, but command was a challenge for him. … The walks I’m sure he’d like to have back. There were some pitches that were just balls out of his hand. There’s not really anything competitive you can get back with those pitches. Better than his last outing, and hopefully he’ll build on it.”

Tillman believes his side work with pitching coach Roger McDowell has paid dividends.

“Actually a lot of it did,” Tillman said. “It just didn’t all come together. There were random spots here and there where it kind of got away. But it’s to the point now where I feel it, I can get out of it for a little bit, get back on track, get back out of it, fight back in. I know what’s going on, and I’m able to make some adjustments.”

Now for the million-dollar question: will Tillman stay in the rotation? Showalter seems to be leaning that way, but didn’t confirm whether he’ll stay on a regular turn or just make spot starts when needed.

“He’ll start again. We’re trying to give some guys some rest,” Showalter said. “Exactly when it is after the off day, we’re going to kind of wait and see how things go, so we won’t really set things in stone until after the off day.”

http://www.baltimorebaseball.com/2017/08/20/chris-tillmans-return-rotation-provides-questions-answers/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Buck said Tillman will get another start <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/orioles?src=hash">#orioles</a></p>&mdash; Roch Kubatko (@masnRoch) <a href="https://twitter.com/masnRoch/status/899380548468170752">August 20, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[SeaBird]

3 hours ago, turtlebowl said:

The last thing I want the hear after this game is how Tillmans results were better and a trend in the right direction.  He was horrible today.  Not sure he ever threw the ball to where the glove was sitting.  There has to be something wrong with the guy.  I just don't know how he could lose that much command without trying to protect an injury.

Well I guess you heard the last thing you wanted to hear.  4 runs, 2 HR, 6 BB, more BB than K's and an ERA of 7.75.  Yet he will start again though no date was specified.

[Cumberbundy]

That was almost Triggs bad. He missed his target by 2 feet about 60 times.

[O's84]

Smh, such a bizarre year.  Men comeback from the dead (Ubaldo, Tillman). Smh, awful pitching this year my god.

[turtlebowl]

14 hours ago, SeaBird said:

Well I guess you heard the last thing you wanted to hear.  4 runs, 2 HR, 6 BB, more BB than K's and an ERA of 7.75.  Yet he will start again though no date was specified.

How can anyone look at that start and say his stuff looked crisper, like Buck said.  Even if he would have been pulled after allowing 2 runs in 5 innings I would have said he was horrible.  No major league pitcher can go out and pitch effectively with no command of the strike zone.  The thing that made him as good as he was the last several years is good command with 3 pitches even though the offerings were not plus pitches.  Take command away with the arsenal he has and it's a recipe for a disaster.  

I will go back to what I still believe, he is not healthy.  He is protecting his shoulder which has made him alter something mechanically.  It's sad for him because this has cost him millions of dollars.  At this point he should just shut it down because it isn't helping him by going out there looking clueless.

[Cumberbundy]

Tillman had more walks than swinging strikes I believe. Fortunately someone blinded Mike Trout & gave us a shot to keep it close. That was an off performance from the best in the business. 

[Lucky_13]

Tillman looked pretty done to me too. Which sucks because he pitched a lot of big games for us over the last 5 years and was essentially punching way above his weight class by being the "ace" for this team.  Pitchers just lose it sometimes.

[Three Run Homer]

It's pretty sad when a pitcher can give up 4 ER in 5.3 IP and still lower his ERA.

[UpstateNYfan]

Tillman will be doing a lot of auditioning and MRIing this off season. I do feel a bit sorry for him, but he has made some pretty good money over the years. I think he will land somewhere, maybe not until the end of March.

 

[O's are Legends]

He's starting again on Sunday. Is there nobody in the minors who can start in his place?

"Here are the pitching matchups for the four-game series against the Blue Jays at Camden Yards:

Thursday: Jeremy Hellickson vs. Marco Estrada
Friday: Kevin Gausman vs. Joe Biagini
Saturday: Wade Miley vs. Marcus Stroman
Sunday: Chris Tillman vs. Brett Anderson"

Pitching matchup info from Roch

[Three Run Homer]

1 minute ago, O's are Legends said:

He's starting again on Sunday. Is there nobody in the minors who can start in his place?

"Here are the pitching matchups for the four-game series against the Blue Jays at Camden Yards:

Thursday: Jeremy Hellickson vs. Marco Estrada
Friday: Kevin Gausman vs. Joe Biagini
Saturday: Wade Miley vs. Marcus Stroman
Sunday: Chris Tillman vs. Brett Anderson"

Pitching matchup info from Roch

There's got to be someone better who has cleared waivers.

[tntoriole]

On 8/21/2017 at 11:58 AM, Lucky_13 said:

Tillman looked pretty done to me too. Which sucks because he pitched a lot of big games for us over the last 5 years and was essentially punching way above his weight class by being the "ace" for this team.  Pitchers just lose it sometimes.

He has definitely lost it.  Our only question is whether Buck let's his loyalty to Tillman lead to losing our shot at the playoffs. 

[Three Run Homer]

On 8/30/2017 at 11:06 PM, tntoriole said:

He has definitely lost it.  Our only question is whether Buck let's his loyalty to Tillman lead to losing our shot at the playoffs. 

Chris Tillman is a great Oriole.  He deserves more loyalty than most players on the team.  But it is ridiculous that he is still getting regular starts.  

How bad is Tillman's season, in historical context?  Here are all of the pitchers since 1901 with 18 or more starts and an ERA above 7.50 in a season.

Chris Tillman, 2017:  20 G, 18 S, 83.1 IP, 7.85 ERA

Hideo Nomo, 2004:  18S, 84.1 IP, 8.25 ERA

Mike Moore, 1995:  25S, 132 IP, 7.53 ERA

Steve Blass, 1973, 23G, 18S, 88.2 IP, 9.85 ERA

Claude Willoughby, 1930 Phillies (Baker Bowl):  41G, 24 S, 153 IP, 7.59 ERA 

Les Sweetland, 1930 Phillies, 34 G, 25 S, 167 IP, 7.71 ERA

There are other pitchers who have had higher ERAs in fewer starts, like Brian Matusz in 2011 or Roy Halladay in 2000, but their managers pulled them from the rotation before they could get to 18 starts.  The only 2 pitchers to get 18 or more starts in MLB history with an ERA higher than 7.85 are Hideo Nomo in 2004 and Steve Blass in 1973 (the gold standard for terrible seasons by a pitcher).

For the love of God, Buck...please stop this.  

 

[LookitsPuck]

I'm so torn on this. On the one side, if you're of the camp that thinks this team isn't a playoff team because it contains guys like Hellickson, Ubaldo and Tillman in it...then I can't really fault the Orioles for trotting him out there every 5th (6th?) day...because really...there is zero depth in the minors and Tillman is a consummate professional and career Oriole (majors). So you let him play out the season with dignity instead of DFA'ing him with a month left in the season.

On the other hand, if you are of the camp that thinks this team is a playoff team...can somebody please tell me what business this rotation has with both Ubaldo and Tillman in it?

Ubaldo's last 11 (July and August): 7.36 ERA, .975 OPS against, 5 IP/game. 

If the goal is to effectively not give your team a chance to win 33% of the starts...then I think Buck and Duquette are doing an admirable job. If the goal is to give your team a chance to win every start, then maybe it's time to relegate Tillman and Ubaldo to the bullpen and leave them in mop up duty.

Now that said, the Orioles have zero impact starting pitching depth in the minors. So maybe it truly is a..."But who else?" type of situation. But man, what a terrible situation to be in.

[joelala]

27 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

I'm so torn on this. On the one side, if you're of the camp that thinks this team isn't a playoff team because it contains guys like Hellickson, Ubaldo and Tillman in it...then I can't really fault the Orioles for trotting him out there every 5th (6th?) day...because really...there is zero depth in the minors and Tillman is a consummate professional and career Oriole (majors). So you let him play out the season with dignity instead of DFA'ing him with a month left in the season.

On the other hand, if you are of the camp that thinks this team is a playoff team...can somebody please tell me what business this rotation has with both Ubaldo and Tillman in it?

Ubaldo's last 11 (July and August): 7.36 ERA, .975 OPS against, 5 IP/game. 

If the goal is to effectively not give your team a chance to win 33% of the starts...then I think Buck and Duquette are doing an admirable job. If the goal is to give your team a chance to win every start, then maybe it's time to relegate Tillman and Ubaldo to the bullpen and leave them in mop up duty.

Now that said, the Orioles have zero impact starting pitching depth in the minors. So maybe it truly is a..."But who else?" type of situation. But man, what a terrible situation to be in.

 

Eh, you can put him in the bullpen and still give guys like Ynoa and Wright, etc.. a tryout in the rotation.  We wouldn't have to DFA him I don't think.  Any other pitcher can't be any worse than Tillman has been this season, as evidenced by his historically bad ERA.  The only smart thing to do is start someone else, no matter what camp you're in.

I agree though, it would be pretty cold to DFA him right now.  I wouldn't like that, and I don't think Buck would let it happen.

Also, the last part is pretty sad and possibly true as well haha.