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Infield moving forward ... anyone else as excited as me?

OrioleMagic79

By OrioleMagic79
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OrioleMagic79 Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

OrioleMagic79

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So I realize that this requires us to re-sign/extend Manny, and after next season (or sooner) Beckham as well ... but this looks REALLY nice moving forward ...

C - Chance Sisco

1B - Trey Mancini

2B - Jonathan Schoop

SS - Tim Beckham

3B - Manny Machado

Then looking to the outfield ...

RF - Davis and/or Trumbo (with the other guy at DH), with Anthony Santander/Austin Hays coming up to replace them in the coming years

CF - Adam Jones with Cedric Mullins coming up to replace him eventually

LF - Rickard with Ryan Mountcastle coming up to replace them eventually

Utility guys ...

Flaherty/Gentry/Smith (which ever we decide to keep around or similar type guys we sign in the coming years)

SO, having said all of that, the big thing to me is to pretty much stick with what we have now/have coming down the road and finally go ahead and address the starting pitching gorilla in the room ... I had been worried about our future after the Jones/Davis/Hardy/etc window closed, but I think we are actually in a really good place offensively and defensively, especially if we sign/keep Machado and Beckham ... I hope they extend Beckham this offseason, because if he plays anywhere close to this well next season, he will command quite a hefty pay raise ...

As far as the pitching is concerned ... I think the few guys I was confident that could contribute moving forward now seem to be reasons for concern ...

Bundy - I'm happy with him, I think he'll get better, though not sure I see him ever becoming a dominant "ace" ... we will see, hope I am wrong

Tillman - I thought going into this season we had a solid #2 starter and just needed an ace to go with him, now? I am not even sure we have a solid starter in him anymore, hopefully he can bounce back next season, but I am skeptical ...

Gausman - I'm not quite ready to give up, but even in the best of cases, I am not sure we have more than a #3 in him at best, and possibly a guy that might do best at changing his career trajectory into a (maybe dominant?) reliever ...

Miley - On this team, he's a #3 or #4, but I think on a WS winner, he's a #5 or long reliever at best ... at worst, maybe not worth holding onto ...

Ubaldo - boy, I was wrong about him ... time to just let him go IMO ... his flashes are even less frequent than I had imagined when I was insistent that we should go get him when he was a free agent because he was at least the best available ... I thought we'd get at least 1.5 dominant seasons out of him if we signed him for 4 years, but it's clear this was just a mistake altogether ...

Hellickson - I don't know what to think about him, but I would guess on a WS winner, he is probably a decent #3 or maybe a really good #4 ... so, we shouldn't sign him like he's an ace if we are even considering signing him after this season ...

Outside of those guys, I don't really have a decent feel on how our starting pitching prospects look in the minors, so maybe some help from you all to let me know what things look like on that front would help ...

I think our bullpen has a great look, even moving forward beyond next season ... Brach and Britton could be gone, but with Givens, Castro, maybe O'Day though he seems to be on the decline and I have no idea about his contract situation ... Bleier seems reasonable ... Gausman seems to me like he would kill it as a closer where he could just cut loose and focus on two, maybe three pitches and look to shut things down in one or two innings ... I am getting tired, so I am sure I am leaving some people out, but with Duquette's ability to put together a bullpen, I am not concerned even if we cannot/don't re-sign Britton and/or Brach ...

What are all of your thoughts on this stuff? Should we sign Manny (I think it is key to keeping our offense looking like a contender in the foreseeable future)? Should we extend Beckham this offseason? What about all the pitching stuff? Do we have some horses in the minor league stable that can/will step up and help us solve our SP woes? If not, any ideas on how to take a team that has a lot of good things in place and put it over the top for the next three or four years to make a real run at winning a championship (or two)?

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Can_of_corn Hangout Grand Counsel

Can_of_corn

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1 minute ago, MDtransplant757 said:

At first. Davis, Mancini and Trumbo are tied. 

Mancini is way better than Trumbo in the OF though. 

From what I have seen Davis is clearly better than Mancini at first and Mancini is clearly better than Trumbo in the outfield.  I would also say that Trumbo is better than Mancini at first and Mancini is better than Davis in the outfield but those two are much closer and I haven't seen as much of them at those positions.

I see no reason to have Mancini at first on a regular basis or Trumbo in the outfield pretty much ever.

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MDtransplant757 Hangout Grand Counsel

MDtransplant757

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Just now, Can_of_corn said:

From what I have seen Davis is clearly better than Mancini at first and Mancini is clearly better than Trumbo in the outfield.  I would also say that Trumbo is better than Mancini at first and Mancini is better than Davis in the outfield but those two are much closer and I haven't seen as much of them at those positions.

I see no reason to have Mancini at first on a regular basis or Trumbo in the outfield pretty much ever.

I don't either. 

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Lucky_13 Major Leaguer Rising Star

Lucky_13

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11 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

I'd trade Trumbo, put Mancini in DH and Mullins goes to LF. 

This is what I hope happens. With an outfield of Mullins, Jones, and Hays, not much will fall in. 

If they keep Machado and Schoop that is a young exciting core moving forward

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Aglets Hangout Grand Counsel

Aglets

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20 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

I'd trade Trumbo, put Mancini in DH and Mullins goes to LF. 

Not that I disagree with the sentiment here.....

But it should be pointed out that Trumbo is a replacement level player this year.  Almost at 0 WAR on the nose.  (To be fair, if he never had to play defense it looks like he'd be positive).   He's due $26M over the next two years.........that might be a little tricky to pull off....especially if we don't want to take on any salary.

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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2 hours ago, OrioleMagic79 said:

So I realize that this requires us to re-sign/extend Manny, and after next season (or sooner) Beckham as well ... but this looks REALLY nice moving forward ...

C - Chance Sisco

1B - Trey Mancini

2B - Jonathan Schoop

SS - Tim Beckham

3B - Manny Machado

Then looking to the outfield ...

RF - Davis and/or Trumbo (with the other guy at DH), with Anthony Santander/Austin Hays coming up to replace them in the coming years

CF - Adam Jones with Cedric Mullins coming up to replace him eventually

LF - Rickard with Ryan Mountcastle coming up to replace them eventually

Utility guys ...

Flaherty/Gentry/Smith (which ever we decide to keep around or similar type guys we sign in the coming years)

SO, having said all of that, the big thing to me is to pretty much stick with what we have now/have coming down the road and finally go ahead and address the starting pitching gorilla in the room ... I had been worried about our future after the Jones/Davis/Hardy/etc window closed, but I think we are actually in a really good place offensively and defensively, especially if we sign/keep Machado and Beckham ... I hope they extend Beckham this offseason, because if he plays anywhere close to this well next season, he will command quite a hefty pay raise ...

As far as the pitching is concerned ... I think the few guys I was confident that could contribute moving forward now seem to be reasons for concern ...

Bundy - I'm happy with him, I think he'll get better, though not sure I see him ever becoming a dominant "ace" ... we will see, hope I am wrong

Tillman - I thought going into this season we had a solid #2 starter and just needed an ace to go with him, now? I am not even sure we have a solid starter in him anymore, hopefully he can bounce back next season, but I am skeptical ...

Gausman - I'm not quite ready to give up, but even in the best of cases, I am not sure we have more than a #3 in him at best, and possibly a guy that might do best at changing his career trajectory into a (maybe dominant?) reliever ...

Miley - On this team, he's a #3 or #4, but I think on a WS winner, he's a #5 or long reliever at best ... at worst, maybe not worth holding onto ...

Ubaldo - boy, I was wrong about him ... time to just let him go IMO ... his flashes are even less frequent than I had imagined when I was insistent that we should go get him when he was a free agent because he was at least the best available ... I thought we'd get at least 1.5 dominant seasons out of him if we signed him for 4 years, but it's clear this was just a mistake altogether ...

Hellickson - I don't know what to think about him, but I would guess on a WS winner, he is probably a decent #3 or maybe a really good #4 ... so, we shouldn't sign him like he's an ace if we are even considering signing him after this season ...

Outside of those guys, I don't really have a decent feel on how our starting pitching prospects look in the minors, so maybe some help from you all to let me know what things look like on that front would help ...

I think our bullpen has a great look, even moving forward beyond next season ... Brach and Britton could be gone, but with Givens, Castro, maybe O'Day though he seems to be on the decline and I have no idea about his contract situation ... Bleier seems reasonable ... Gausman seems to me like he would kill it as a closer where he could just cut loose and focus on two, maybe three pitches and look to shut things down in one or two innings ... I am getting tired, so I am sure I am leaving some people out, but with Duquette's ability to put together a bullpen, I am not concerned even if we cannot/don't re-sign Britton and/or Brach ...

What are all of your thoughts on this stuff? Should we sign Manny (I think it is key to keeping our offense looking like a contender in the foreseeable future)? Should we extend Beckham this offseason? What about all the pitching stuff? Do we have some horses in the minor league stable that can/will step up and help us solve our SP woes? If not, any ideas on how to take a team that has a lot of good things in place and put it over the top for the next three or four years to make a real run at winning a championship (or two)?

You want to depend on Rickard for LF? He is only a backup. IMO 

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Tx Oriole Hangout Grand Counsel

Tx Oriole

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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think Mancini is a superior first baseman compared to Davis or Trumbo?

Do you think Mancini is an inferior outfielder compared to Davis or Trumbo?

I think CD should stay at 1st. Mancini should be in LF. AJ in right. Could Mullins play CF? 

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Three Run Homer Hangout Veteran Council

Three Run Homer

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The number one problem with our lineup going forward is that we need to resign Manny.  It's a tall order, and there is no replacement waiting in the wings.  

The number two problem with our lineup going forward is that Chris Davis and Mark Trumbo are signed to white-elephant contracts and will block some subset of Austin Hays, Cedric Mullins, Anthony Santander and Ryan Mountcastle going forward.   With Mancini rightfully entrenched in LF, there is at most one lineup spot up for grabs on the right end of the defensive spectrum for the next 2 seasons (assuming we don't resign Seth Smith), unless we can miraculously find someone to take Davis or Trumbo off our hands.   Mountcastle probably needs a couple more years in the minors, but Hays, Mullins and Santander will be major league ready very soon, if they aren't already.   

I don't see extending Beckham as a priority now.  He's under team control for 3 more seasons.  Let's see where his production settles in next year.  

The team has a tough decision to make about Adam Jones after next season.  He's still a good ballplayer and he's an Oriole Hall-of-Famer.  But if Mullins or Hays can manage CF, it might be wise to follow the Ozzie Newsome rule about getting 80 percent of the production at 10 percent of the cost.  

Some have suggested trading Mancini for a good young starting pitcher, and given the makeup of our minor league system and some of our unmovable contracts, I have to say that it's something to consider.  

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Ruzious Hangout Grand Counsel

Ruzious

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1 hour ago, Lucky_13 said:

This is what I hope happens. With an outfield of Mullins, Jones, and Hays, not much will fall in. 

If they keep Machado and Schoop that is a young exciting core moving forward

If there's one key to the O's future, it's signing Manny.  If he is signed, there's a lot of reason for optimism.  His presence hides a lot of potential problems.  If he isn't... the problems get exposed and expanded.    

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