The outfield defense by the numbers, 2014-17

[Frobby]

2014:  +34.3 UZR in the OF (2nd/30)

  LF: Cruz +5.8 UZR/150 (9th/29)

  CF: Jones +8.7 (12th/36)

  RF Markakis +5.8 (9th/31)

2015:  -1.4 UZR (16th/30)

  LF:  Team -1.0 UZR/150 (17th/30)

  CF: Jones +8.1 (9th/31)

  RF: Team -1.5 (15th/30)

2016: -36.7 UZR (30th/30)

  LF: Kim -17.4 UZR/150 (23rd/24)

  CF: Jones -9.9 (29th/32)

  RF: Trumbo -9.9 (25th/29)

2017: -16.2 UZR (29th/30)

  LF: Mancini -8.9 UZR/150 (19th/23)

  CF: Jones -15.2 (31st/31)

  RF: Smith -4.5 (24th/29)

Note: individual rankings are for players with at least 500 innings at a position.    In 2015, no Oriole played 500 innings in either corner OF spot, so I just gave the team rankings there.

Between 2014 and 2016, we went from having the 2nd best OF defense (per UZR) to having the worst OF defense in MLB.     We bounced back about 20 runs this season but still ranked 29th of 30.

I think we tend to focus a lot on the corners and underrate how far Jones has slipped.     He still looks smooth and athletic out there, but he's lost a lot of speed.    I don't think playing him deeper really helped much, as a lot of fly balls fell in front of him.   I don't think there's any likelihood that Adam moves to a corner spot next year, but really, it's time.

As to Mancini, he doesn't embarrass himself in LF, but he's got limited range as well.     Maybe his numbers will improve a bit in 2018 by virtue of having more experience; I did sense improvement as the year progressed.

As to RF, assuming Hays makes the roster I hope to see greatly improved range there, though I do think he's a bit rough around the edges.

  

 

[Can_of_corn]

I said when earlier this year, I think in response to one of your threads, that I would be satisfied if they moved up from being 30th.  So here we are at 29th.

 

I do think most of us realize that Jones isn't who he used to be in Centerfield.  He should move to right but he won't.  Hopefully they find a way to dump Trumbo and they can go into next season with real corner outfielders that can decrease the amount of ground Jones has to account for in Center.

I think a lot of folks minimize the impact the decrease in team defense has on the pitching.

[Babypowder]

34 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I said when earlier this year, I think in response to one of your threads, that I would be satisfied if they moved up from being 30th.  So here we are at 29th.

 

I do think most of us realize that Jones isn't who he used to be in Centerfield.  He should move to right but he won't.  Hopefully they find a way to dump Trumbo and they can go into next season with real corner outfielders that can decrease the amount of ground Jones has to account for in Center.

I think a lot of folks minimize the impact the decrease in team defense has on the pitching.

Low strikeout, fly ball prone pitchers coupled with poor outfield defense doesn't seem like an ideal combination.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Babypowder said:

Low strikeout, fly ball prone pitchers coupled with poor outfield defense doesn't seem like an ideal combination.

At least the homer friendly stadium cuts down on their chances somewhat. 

[eddie83]

42 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I said when earlier this year, I think in response to one of your threads, that I would be satisfied if they moved up from being 30th.  So here we are at 29th.

 

I do think most of us realize that Jones isn't who he used to be in Centerfield.  He should move to right but he won't.  Hopefully they find a way to dump Trumbo and they can go into next season with real corner outfielders that can decrease the amount of ground Jones has to account for in Center.

I think a lot of folks minimize the impact the decrease in team defense has on the pitching.

A couple of weeks ago someone brought up Dyson. I figured since the Orioles only have Jones under contract one more year they would just let it play out. 

The more I keep thinking about it, eating some of Trumbo's contract may be the cheapest way to improve the team. Hays should help in RF. Even if he makes some errors he will create more outs. I really think this is a route they should go but I doubt ownership let's them.  

 

On a side note I am surprised the 2014 numbers were that good. Can't believe Cruz rated so well. Seemed like everyone said Nick was overrated defensively. Pearce had a nice year and in late game spots Lough helped. 

[Frobby]

16 minutes ago, Babypowder said:

Low strikeout, fly ball prone pitchers coupled with poor outfield defense doesn't seem like an ideal combination.

I look at it this way:   UZR says our outfield gave up 16-17 runs more than an average outfield would.    That's bad.    But at the same time, our pitching staff has allowed 109 more runs than last year (and counting), even though the outfield defense is about 20 runs better than last year's.    So really, it's hard to blame the poor pitching on the outfield defense to any significant degree.   They might want to look at the 55 additional homers and 18 additional walks they've allowed (and counting).

[eddie83]

I think I forget to mention that Buck brought up the OF defense on Sunday. He said something along the lines of, "it's something we got away from".  I wasn't sure if it was a subtle knock on Dan or not. I heard it on the radio pregame. 

[eddie83]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I look at it this way:   UZR says our outfield gave up 16-17 runs more than an average outfield would.    That's bad.    But at the same time, our pitching staff has allowed 109 more runs than last year (and counting), even though the outfield defense is about 20 runs better than last year's.    So really, it's hard to blame the poor pitching on the outfield defense to any significant degree.   They might want to look at the 55 additional homers and 18 additional walks they've allowed (and counting).

This staff stinks no matter who is in the OF. That said if we could actually move Jones to LF and add a Dyson type to CF along with Hays in RF that has the potential to make a pretty dramatic difference. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

I think I forget to mention that Buck brought up the OF defense on Sunday. He said something along the lines of, "it's something we got away from".  I wasn't sure if it was a subtle knock on Dan or not. I heard it on the radio pregame. 

Yea, that's Dan putting Trumbo out in right field.

[eddie83]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea, that's Dan putting Trumbo out in right field.

Hey....  that was more last year. 

I also may have been reading into it too much. 

[eddie83]

Here is Buck with his comments about defense. I thought for sure when I heard him he referenced the OF but that isn't mentioned specifically here.

 

http://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2017/09/orioles-down-1-0-after-one-pitch-plus-more-pregame-notes.html

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Yea, that's Dan putting Trumbo out in right field.

He's only played 31 games in RF this year, compared to 95 last year.    That's a big reason our OF defense has improved, even though Smith is slightly below average out there.    

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

He's only played 31 games in RF this year, compared to 95 last year.    That's a big reason our OF defense has improved, even though Smith is slightly below average out there.    

Still about 30 too many.

[jtschrei]

Shocked how good Cruz's numbers were in 2014. We need to get better in the OF. When you have below average pitching, the defense has got to be good.

I'd really like to move Davis and Trumbo this offseason. If you can play Mancini at 1B, Hays in RF, and some sort of plus defender in LF, we could be solid next year and have money to spend on some pitching.

Then again, the O's would have to eat tons of salary to get rid of Davis and Trumbo. It will never happen, but I can dream, can't I.

[webbrick2010]

Hey Frobby if you get the chance how about the same thing for the infield

Be interesting with the transition from Hardy, and Manny going from platinum to only 5 DRS this year

If Beckham is at SS for the majority of the games next year I think there is a chance that the OF defense becomes better than the IF defense