What is Dan Duquette doing?

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'm (not) sorry but the notion that the Orioles are a mid market team is a steaming load of crap.  Sure, it's not NYC, Chicago or LA.  It might not even be Boston or Philly in terms of population density.  If that's how you define mid-market, fine.

But the Orioles OD payroll for 2017 was 163 million, which was 10th in the majors.  And they were within 13 million of cracking the top 5.

The Orioles are sitting around with their hats in their hands asking for a handout.  They've shown they can spend more than most teams out there.

As for your article, I really don't care.  DD's MO has been the same throughout, sit back and wait, gobble up Rule 5 guys, and don't make any impactful moves until way late in the offseason.

The Orioles are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.    If they spend, people say “see, they’re not a mid-market team.”    If they don’t spend, everyone says they’re cheap.    

The alternative scenario — probably the correct one IMO — is that the team occasionally will be willing to lose money in periods when the team is in contention and needs a little extra spending to stay there.   But it can’t do that year after year.   The O’s have generally been in the middle of the pack on payroll, and the fact that they went higher for a year or two doesn’t tell me they have endless capacity to do that.    And by the way, just so it’s clear: I don’t really know.    This is just my opinion of the most likely scenario.    Forbes had the O’s with a modest operating loss in 2016, and I’m guessing that loss will be bigger in 2017 with payroll up and attendance down.     Whether Forbes’ numbers are accurate, I have no idea.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

The Orioles are slow to react in a normal off season.  It's hardly surprising they aren't making any moves when every other team is in wait and see mode.  At this rate it will be mid march before the Orioles fill out their rotation.  

[24fps]

55 minutes ago, Camden_yardbird said:

Haha.  I saw this and thought "Soon the only players hitting free agency will be those players teams don't want and the Orioles stars they have failed to trade or extend."

The first half of your comment is the way things should be IMO, and the second half doesn't look good for teams in the same division with other teams that are not only richer but also smarter as the Yankees seem to have become.

[Can_of_corn]

51 minutes ago, Frobby said:

The Orioles are damned if they do and damned if they don’t.    If they spend, people say “see, they’re not a mid-market team.”    If they don’t spend, everyone says they’re cheap.    

The alternative scenario — probably the correct one IMO — is that the team occasionally will be willing to lose money in periods when the team is in contention and needs a little extra spending to stay there.   But it can’t do that year after year.   The O’s have generally been in the middle of the pack on payroll, and the fact that they went higher for a year or two doesn’t tell me they have endless capacity to do that.    And by the way, just so it’s clear: I don’t really know.    This is just my opinion of the most likely scenario.    Forbes had the O’s with a modest operating loss in 2016, and I’m guessing that loss will be bigger in 2017 with payroll up and attendance down.     Whether Forbes’ numbers are accurate, I have no idea.

Do you think the team ever actually loses money?

[SteveA]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you think the team ever actually loses money?

The team?  Sure.

The team + MASN (i.e. the bottom line for Angelo's)?  Never

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

If Dan does not improve the team before Fanfest, I hope the Orioles have a record low attendance at this year's event. I used to like Dan but he has worn out his welcome with me. I want a GM who is aggressive instead of being slow and methodical.

[MDtransplant757]

40 minutes ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

If Dan does not improve the team before Fanfest, I hope the Orioles have a record low attendance at this year's event. I used to like Dan but he has worn out his welcome with me. I want a GM who is aggressive instead of being slow and methodical.

Seriously? Imagine how annoying it would be when said GM signs players to dumb deals all in the name of "beating the market." 

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

The Orioles would be so much better off if they had a GM who was aggressive. We need a GM who is not afraid to sign a big name pitcher or make a difficult trade. It will be all Dan's fault if the Orioles finish in last place again this year. Signing rejects like Cashner or Vargas is not going to do the Orioles much good.

[Il BuonO]

5 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Seriously? Imagine how annoying it would be when said GM signs players to dumb deals all in the name of "beating the market." 

How would that be any different than what has already happened?

[24fps]

Just now, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

The Orioles would be so much better off if they had a GM who was aggressive. We need a GM who is not afraid to sign a big name pitcher or make a difficult trade. It will be all Dan's fault if the Orioles finish in last place again this year. Signing rejects like Cashner or Vargas is not going to do the Orioles much good.

Do you honestly think that Dan Duquette is afraid?  What sort of aggression would you reasonably expect to see if DD was replaced?  

[MDtransplant757]

16 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

How would that be any different than what has already happened?

In what regards? 

[bpilktree]

28 minutes ago, Diehard_O's_Fan said:

The Orioles would be so much better off if they had a GM who was aggressive. We need a GM who is not afraid to sign a big name pitcher or make a difficult trade. It will be all Dan's fault if the Orioles finish in last place again this year. Signing rejects like Cashner or Vargas is not going to do the Orioles much good.

We have had plenty of GM's over last 20 years and none have signed big name pitcher or long contracts on pitcher.  If you think the GM is the reason and not the ownership you will be greatly disappointed in a GM no matter what. 

[Diehard_O's_Fan]

I don't like it how the Orioles only have two starting pitchers locked in this year and yet they are sitting on their hands waiting for the market to develop. After the market develops, we will probably be stuck with rejects like Cashner or Vargas. If the Orioles could improve their rotation by getting atleast one starting pitcher for Manny then you absolutely have to do it. I will always be an Orioles fan but it is an very frustrating time to be an Orioles fan right now.

[Il BuonO]

33 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

In what regards? 

In regards to your question. The GM signing players to dumb deals. Jimenez, Trumbo, etc. I don’t put Davis on him because of Angelos’ influence, but it’s not like we’ve seen much different.

[Tx Oriole]

3 hours ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I'm not disagreeing with, I'm just saying it's hard to ass judgement, given the current climate, until it actually happens. And I'm also not sure how much of the blame is on him and how much is on the Angelos / Anderson clique. I mean, we know that Angelos won't...

1) allow him to sign starting pitchers long term (which rules out all the difference makers)

2) routinely nixes trades or doesn't allow trades involving certain players

3) listens (and is heavily influenced by) inexperienced staff like Brady Anderson

 

I'm not a Duquette, but I think the deck is stacked against any GM working for Angelos. It's really a mountain that can't be climbed. 

I understand that Angelos is the fly in the ointment.