Anyone else slowly growing tired with Buck?

[Going Underground]

7 hours ago, Rene88 said:

Good post here and completely agree on Alvarez (he has been so loyal and patient but....) and Rasmus. Hays belongs on this team. The fact he is in AA Bowie is even more puzzling...

He definitely sticks with people and things(e.g-CD leading off) too long and if it doesn't work, sticks with it longer.

And where has Danny V been?

Danny V has been on the bench. The Orioles will face their first lefty starter today. He will play more once they play teams like Boston with many lefty starters.

[webbrick2010]

It's a bad team, weak starting pitching, below average offense, putrid defense, and weak bullpen. Not much Buck can do, but his love of veteranocity which I'm sure has something to do with contracts to Rasmus, Valencia, Alvarez, and Tillman hasn't helped.

[Rene88]

7 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Danny V has been on the bench. The Orioles will face their first lefty starter today. He will play more once they play teams like Boston with many lefty starters.

Oh I know that but not even a PH? We haven’t been close in some of these games...is he in the dog house?

[Going Underground]

4 minutes ago, Rene88 said:

Oh I know that but not even a PH? We haven’t been close in some of these games...is he in the dog house?

He has pinch hit in two of the five games. He will play today. It has only been five games. The question becomes when Trumbo comes back how much playing time does he get and where?

[Just Regular]

I get that it is Mr. Angelos's practice, and I think with a reasonable year he will again pursue Dan or Buck (perhaps not both), but I do wonder if the lame duck situation of the org's entire management leaves the clubhouse a little unsettled.  Right this moment I am nervous about what the record might be when we leave Boston a week from Monday.  Correa's getting the day off today, so the Astros are letting up a little - salvaging one would really help.

[Rene88]

34 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

He has pinch hit in two of the five games. He will play today. It has only been five games. The question becomes when Trumbo comes back how much playing time does he get and where?

My bad. Thanks.

[DrungoHazewood]

9 hours ago, Rene88 said:

Buck is a great manager but starting to see why other towns patience grew thin.

Yes, all towns eventually decide that it's easier to fire the manager than 25 players, the GM, the owner, and the minor league system.  Few owners or GMs will turn the mirror on themselves.  Sometimes the manager's style becomes stale and a good manager can be replaced with a different manager to good results. 

But I think it's rare that a team that's lacking in talent replaces a good manager with some other guy just because, and gets positive results.  The Orioles are an underdog team this year.  I seriously doubt that some new face is going to wring a lot more wins out of them than Buck will.  Casey Stengel and Connie Mack and Joe McCarthy were picked apart in 1-4 runs, too.

[Sessh]

8 hours ago, Rene88 said:

We owe Buck a lot. I don’t want to just dump on the man but he’s not flawless and the longer we see some things...we being to understand his weaknesses. 

Thing is his weaknesses were obvious before he even came here. Buck was great for about three years, but didn't stick longer than that because of wearing out his welcome and the team somehow knowing Showalter could only take them so far and couldn't take them all the way to their goal of a World Series which the D'Backs and Yankees did immediately after they let him go. Their goal was to win a World Series and not just win in the regular season. It was fortunate for Buck that he came to Baltimore where everyone would be satisfied with regular season wins even if, like his history showed, the team always exited the post season empty handed with a losing record. People in Baltimore had such low expectations and low self esteem that they didn't care about winning a World Series. Regular season wins was enough just to give something to gloat about. The bar here was set low which is why Showalter has survived here for so long; lower standards and expectations.

I've been tired of him since after 2014 because it was clear to me then more than before he came here that he was not capable of leading a team to a championship and, like other organizations with higher expectations, it was time to find someone else to take us the rest of the way because 2014 was the best we were going to see out of him. Missed the playoffs in 2015 and single handedly cost the team the wild card game by putting the season in the hands of Ubaldo Jimenez in a one game playoff and leaving him in long enough to lose the game while our best pitcher was left standing in the bullpen. It's the same thing he did in 1995 with the Yankees and apparently learned nothing from that experience.

I've said it before; Showalter is an outstanding managerial choice for a young, up and coming team. He can get that team on track fast and make them a respectable team, but the longer he is there, the more he manages with his personal feelings instead of what's best for the team and it's downhill from there. He can not lead a team to a championship. He just doesn't have the flexibility and outside-the-box managerial style necessary for that. He is a stubborn man set in his ways and will not budge off of it no matter how many times it fails him and when he tries to do these things, he has no idea what he's doing and ends up doing things like batting Hardy/CD at the top of the order despite abysmal OBP's. CD hitting leadoff is hilarious. Showalter is good, but has a very short shelf life except in Baltimore where the standards are low and regular season wins are just as good as a World Series.

He should have been gone years ago. It's just too bad everyone on here decided to just ignore his track record and live in delusion that he was something he isn't, never was and is not capable of being. So, it's taken years longer for the Orioles to figure this out than it took the Yankees, D'Backs and Rangers to figure out and really that's just typical Orioles. Always a day late and a dollar short; the new Orioles Way.

[Moose Milligan]

@Rene88 Danny Valencia isn't going to singlehandedly do anything to make this team significantly better.  Worrying about how many at bats Danny Valencia is getting is the definition of re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

4 minutes ago, Sessh said:

Thing is his weaknesses were obvious before he even came here. Buck was great for about three years, but didn't stick longer than that because of wearing out his welcome and the team somehow knowing Showalter could only take them so far and couldn't take them all the way to their goal of a World Series which the D'Backs and Yankees did immediately after they let him go. Their goal was to win a World Series and not just win in the regular season. It was fortunate for Buck that he came to Baltimore where everyone would be satisfied with regular season wins even if, like his history showed, the team always exited the post season empty handed with a losing record. People in Baltimore had such low expectations and low self esteem that they didn't care about winning a World Series. Regular season wins was enough just to give something to gloat about. The bar here was set low which is why Showalter has survived here for so long; lower standards and expectations.

I've been tired of him since after 2014 because it was clear to me then more than before he came here that he was not capable of leading a team to a championship and, like other organizations with higher expectations, it was time to find someone else to take us the rest of the way because 2014 was the best we were going to see out of him. Missed the playoffs in 2015 and single handedly cost the team the wild card game by putting the season in the hands of Ubaldo Jimenez in a one game playoff and leaving him in long enough to lose the game while our best pitcher was left standing in the bullpen. It's the same thing he did in 1995 with the Yankees and apparently learned nothing from that experience.

I've said it before; Showalter is an outstanding managerial choice for a young, up and coming team. He can get that team on track fast and make them a respectable team, but the longer he is there, the more he manages with his personal feelings instead of what's best for the team and it's downhill from there. He can not lead a team to a championship. He just doesn't have the flexibility and outside-the-box managerial style necessary for that. He is a stubborn man set in his ways and will not budge off of it no matter how many times it fails him and when he tries to do these things, he has no idea what he's doing and ends up doing things like batting Hardy/CD at the top of the order despite abysmal OBP's. CD hitting leadoff is hilarious. Showalter is good, but has a very short shelf life except in Baltimore where the standards are low and regular season wins are just as good as a World Series.

He should have been gone years ago. It's just too bad everyone on here decided to just ignore his track record and live in delusion that he was something he isn't, never was and is not capable of being. So, it's taken years longer for the Orioles to figure this out than it took the Yankees, D'Backs and Rangers to figure out and really that's just typical Orioles. Always a day late and a dollar short; the new Orioles Way.

While he's presided over some good teams here, none of them were capable of winning a title with Buck or any other manager.  Maybe the 2014 team.  

He can manage with his feelings all he want, but there's no flexible out of the box thinking that could have propelled those teams to greater heights.  The offenses could go stone cold at any moment.  Hardy and CD at the top of the order are somewhat understandable because there's no one else that's an OBP king.  

Find me another manager that would have done better over the years.  I'm not trying to be a Buck apologist, there are some things that haven't been great (Britton in the bullpen especially) but let's not pretend that someone like Maddon would have won this franchise a World Series.  

[bpilktree]

I take very little from the first 5 games.  We faced a pretty good team in the Twins and clearly the best team in baseball all while pitching without maybe our best pitcher and starting Tilman and Wright in two games.  The Red Sox lead but so far they have played two teams that basically gave up on the season in December and will most likely be the worst two teams in baseball.  Their first 8 games are vs those teams so they were going to get out to a quick start.  We have not played good in Houston in years and they are the best team in the game now.  The offense has looked bad but last night we saw more like I expect not a lot of hits but a couple of homers. 

[Frobby]

I have an open mind about what the O’s should do with the manager situation after 2018.    Buck has done a very good job here IMO, and I’m certainly not going to put any blame on him that the team hasn’t won a World Series in his time here.    But at the same time, there are some decent reasons to consider replacing him:

1.   We are likely to have a new GM, and the GM should have a strong say in who the manager is.    The power dynamic between Dan and Buck is a little warped.

2.   Sometimes, a manager’s message and way of doing things just gets old to the team.     Even Buck has acknowledged this phenomenon (not specifically with regard to the Orioles).    It’s arguable that this time has arrived.

3.   Buck’s loyalty to long-time contributors may be clouding his judgment in certain cases.    We may need a fresh look from someone who has no prior relationship with these players.   

4.   If the team needs to go into rebuilding mode, Buck may not be able to see it and manage accordingly.    

With all that said, be careful what you wish for.    The odds that the next manager will do a better job than Buck aren’t that high.

[wildbillhiccup]

I am. His stubbornness is intolerable when they're not winning. And isn't this his MO? He typically wears out his welcome after 4 - 5 years. 

[Frobby]

6 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I am. His stubbornness is intolerable when they're not winning. And isn't this his MO? He typically wears out his welcome after 4 - 5 years. 

You say that like it’s unusual.   Not that many managers last 4 years with a club.    Right now Buck is the fourth-longest serving manager with his current team, behind Mike Scioscia, Bruce Bochy and Ned Yost.

[Tx Oriole]

10 hours ago, Rene88 said:

I won’t mention Ubaldo vs. Britton with the season on the line...

2 Rule 5 guys tonight with game on the line? Even Roch & Britt were scratching their heads on Twitter...

The CD leadoff experiment.

Him going against his GM to sign CD to perhaps one of the worst contracts in baseball. 

Buck is a great manager but starting to see why other towns patience grew thin.

You can't blame Buck for the CD contract alone. I still remember when someone said that contract was ownership. Now Buck may have had something to do with it. But to blame it all on Buck is wrong. Look I am not a Buck apologist. He has done things wrong and may have worn out his welcome. I wonder if he has lost the clubhouse? I certainly hope not. 

[wildbillhiccup]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

You say that like it’s unusual.   Not that many managers last 4 years with a club.    Right now Buck is the fourth-longest serving manager with his current team, behind Mike Scioscia, Bruce Bochy and Ned Yost.

It might not be that uncommon now, but it hasn't always been that way. I think it's pretty much common knowledge in the industry as well. What I said wasn't really a stretch by any means. 

And no, I'm not blaming Buck for CD contract, but I can certainly blame him for this ridiculous lead off hitter experiment.