Anyone else slowly growing tired with Buck?

[Tx Oriole]

10 hours ago, 24fps said:

Everything will be much better once Buck sobers up.  Is there any rational explanation for consistently batting Chris Davis leadoff other than binge drinking?

Oh come on. That's a terrible thing to suggest Buck is drunk. 

 

[Tx Oriole]

2 hours ago, joeyc said:

Now that's funny.

I don't think it is. What's to stop someone from reading that and thinking Bucks a drunk?

[interloper]

Once again, the Orioles SPs are not prepared to go more than 80 or 90 pitches while the opposition's rotation clearly is. 

I don't know why this continues to happen, and if it's the Orioles' philosophy to keep pitchers healthy, I don't agree with it. 

[ScGO's]

10 hours ago, Rene88 said:

I won’t mention Ubaldo vs. Britton with the season on the line...

2 Rule 5 guys tonight with game on the line? Even Roch & Britt were scratching their heads on Twitter...

The CD leadoff experiment.

Him going against his GM to sign CD to perhaps one of the worst contracts in baseball. 

Buck is a great manager but starting to see why other towns patience grew thin.

Devil's advocate here.  He needs to play these guys now and figure out if they have any value before the season is in full swing.  Both these Rule V's might be gone in a week.  Why?  Because Buck threw them into pressure situations to see if they could handle it in order to get a better assessment of their current value.  We have some RP depth, and I think Buck and Dan knew this and used it to structure the Opening Day roster in a way to continue assessing the value of their players.  Without Britton, I think they knew it would take a couple of weeks for their Bullpen to materialize.  Perhaps its Cortes vs. Araujo in Round 2 right right now, and they were only ever planning on keeping one.  Maybe they keep none.  Perhaps they have done enough analysis at this point to realize the difference in a Rickard/MacFarland/Flarhety vs.  a Santander.  You can only learn from your mistakes and adjust, right?  Perhaps they will make that assessment earlier this time and cut ties soon.

Same with Davis.  Its been 2+ years.  Maybe this leadoff thing is really a "let's get this out of the way now" move.  If he bombs in April, maybe he becomes a 10th man on the bench.  Play the occasional matchup.  Take some reps in the OF and 3B and he becomes valuable as a utility player.  Hell, he'd have some value as a pinch runner in a couple of situations.  Maybe he gets "hurt" and goes and tries to figure it out in AAA on a "rehab."  Dan and Buck, in their positions, have to understand value and cut their losses if it starts to get embarrassing.  Whoever supported it, Buck, Dan, Brady, Angelos, whoever, it doesn't mean they can't recognize a bad investment after the fact.  These guys aren't blind. They now realize they made this investment right before the market began to correct itself.  Look at how many bad contracts were traded this year.  Heck, Stanton's contract is considered bad by most.  Our brass might be in the process of finding a way to minimize the damage.  I wouldn't be shocked if he's benched by May.

They might do the same thing with Trumbo when he comes back.  I could see them straight up cutting him if his OPS stays below .700.  Even though he has two seasons to go, they know he isn't part of the future.

Maybe they are doing the same with Tillman and Wright ; they might be out soon too.  There were rumors the O's were checking on Dickey.  Maybe there is more behind the scenes than we know. Feldman and Lackey are still out there.  Perhaps Dan is still out looking for depth via trade too.  Tillman could be DL'd for the year and maybe the O's have an insurance policy on his shoulder or something (stuff like that happens right?), so they might recoup the money and not feel bad about moving on at this point.  But they had to at least throw him out there and see if he had anything left.  Same with Wright, maybe he just slides into a BP role or he's traded. 

Maybe Buck, Dan, and Brady have lost patience with some of these players and they are ready to cut ties or at least take action for the benefit of the team in spite of their players' ego.  Maybe that process has already started with the recent trades of Chricton and Liranzo. I feel like Buck is due for a clubhouse blow up.  I say make the personnel moves first, THEN throw some chairs, dig deep, and challenge their male parts.

I've always felt that Buck, whether winning or losing, doesn't put as much value on the team's overall record during the season's first couple of weeks.  He more or less wants to see who is ready to go to war, and shed the fodder early, before they ride into the belly of the beast.

 

Or maybe none of this is what Buck is thinking at all.

[Moose Milligan]

28 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I am. His stubbornness is intolerable when they're not winning. And isn't this his MO? He typically wears out his welcome after 4 - 5 years. 

Stubbornness for what, exactly?  

Wearing out his welcome?

Yeah, they look terrible this year but someone tell me which manager they would prefer instead.  Which manager could take this roster as presently constructed and have a better outcome?  Which manager could have avoided last place in 2017?  

Quote

"We've got a pitching staff full of starters who are average on their best day, a bullpen that was great a few years ago but isn't that great anymore, a bad defense and a lineup full of low on base guys who would be best suited for your beer softball league.  WHY AREN'T WE WINNING?!??! BUCK WHAT IS THE MATTER WITH YOU???? CAN'T YOU COAX 1ST PLACE RESULTS OUT OF A LAST PLACE GROUP OF TALENT!??!!? BUCK WHY AREN'T YOU PUTTING A LEFTY PLATOON HITTER IN THE LINEUP EVERY DAY!?!!? THAT WOULD DO SOOOOOOOO MUCH FOR US BUT NOOOOOOOO YOU'RE STICKING TO THE PLAYERS WE DON'T WANT YOU TO PLAY!  YOU ARE WEARING OUT YOUR WELCOME AND WE DON'T WANT YOU HERE ANYMORE!  UGH!  Your stubbornness is killing us, Buck, it's #@%^ing killing us.  You need to make flexible lineup and management decisions with a highly inflexible group of baseball players.  Don't worry about the fact that, like, half the roster is full of people that should be playing first base in that are in the lineup every day and that Mark Trumbo is coming back soon so you need to figure out a way to get him at bats, too.  BUCK YOU ARE WEARING OUT YOUR WELCOME THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!  Dammit, get creative!  Put Schoop in left field and Manny in right.  BE CREATIVE!!  JEEZ!!!  My 5 year old could do a better job with this roster.  You know what he's doing right now, Buck?  He's finger painting.  BUT HE'S FINGER PAINTING A BETTER LINEUP THAN YOU EVER COULD.  FIGURE IT OUT!!! 

-Orioleshangout.com, April 2018

[24fps]

19 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

Oh come on. That's a terrible thing to suggest Buck is drunk. 

 

You want to know terrible?  Terrible is batting Chris Davis leadoff for five consecutive games.  That's terrible.

Suggesting Buck might not be completely himself at the moment?  Under the circumstances, that's kind.

 

[gtman55]

1 hour ago, Sessh said:

Thing is his weaknesses were obvious before he even came here. Buck was great for about three years, but didn't stick longer than that because of wearing out his welcome and the team somehow knowing Showalter could only take them so far and couldn't take them all the way to their goal of a World Series which the D'Backs and Yankees did immediately after they let him go. Their goal was to win a World Series and not just win in the regular season. It was fortunate for Buck that he came to Baltimore where everyone would be satisfied with regular season wins even if, like his history showed, the team always exited the post season empty handed with a losing record. People in Baltimore had such low expectations and low self esteem that they didn't care about winning a World Series. Regular season wins was enough just to give something to gloat about. The bar here was set low which is why Showalter has survived here for so long; lower standards and expectations.

I've been tired of him since after 2014 because it was clear to me then more than before he came here that he was not capable of leading a team to a championship and, like other organizations with higher expectations, it was time to find someone else to take us the rest of the way because 2014 was the best we were going to see out of him. Missed the playoffs in 2015 and single handedly cost the team the wild card game by putting the season in the hands of Ubaldo Jimenez in a one game playoff and leaving him in long enough to lose the game while our best pitcher was left standing in the bullpen. It's the same thing he did in 1995 with the Yankees and apparently learned nothing from that experience.

I've said it before; Showalter is an outstanding managerial choice for a young, up and coming team. He can get that team on track fast and make them a respectable team, but the longer he is there, the more he manages with his personal feelings instead of what's best for the team and it's downhill from there. He can not lead a team to a championship. He just doesn't have the flexibility and outside-the-box managerial style necessary for that. He is a stubborn man set in his ways and will not budge off of it no matter how many times it fails him and when he tries to do these things, he has no idea what he's doing and ends up doing things like batting Hardy/CD at the top of the order despite abysmal OBP's. CD hitting leadoff is hilarious. Showalter is good, but has a very short shelf life except in Baltimore where the standards are low and regular season wins are just as good as a World Series.

He should have been gone years ago. It's just too bad everyone on here decided to just ignore his track record and live in delusion that he was something he isn't, never was and is not capable of being. So, it's taken years longer for the Orioles to figure this out than it took the Yankees, D'Backs and Rangers to figure out and really that's just typical Orioles. Always a day late and a dollar short; the new Orioles Way.

Great post. I also think Buck tends to be too cute in his choices just to prove that he's smarter than the next guy. We really need a rebuild and someone with a different managerial style and temperament. Just my honest opinion.

[24fps]

25 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

I don't think it is. What's to stop someone from reading that and thinking Bucks a drunk?

A sense of humor?  Relax friend.  It's not like we're Phillies fans.

[blid]

10 hours ago, 24fps said:

Everything will be much better once Buck sobers up.  Is there any rational explanation for consistently batting Chris Davis leadoff other than binge drinking?

I mean it's definitely because he knows Chris Davis sucked last year and he's trying creative ways to jump start him, right?  If there's any skill remaining in Davis it's Buck's job to try to shake it out.  But is there...?

[Sessh]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Find me another manager that would have done better over the years.  I'm not trying to be a Buck apologist, there are some things that haven't been great (Britton in the bullpen especially) but let's not pretend that someone like Maddon would have won this franchise a World Series.  

I would have gone hard after Francona in 2012 personally. It's not often that such a manager becomes available like that. There are better managers than Buck out there that haven't even been discovered yet. Who saw Dave Roberts coming? Heck, AJ Hinch won a WS in his third year as manager. There were guys out there to find and undoubtedly still are guys out there to find who would excel at being a manager. Other teams can find them and so could this one if we were interested. Maddon would have had a better chance than Showalter. The Orioles had the best competitive window since the late 90's and did nothing with it. Not even an ALCS win. That's pathetic. Showalter had a very good team in 2014 just like he had a good team in 1995 and 1999 and could lead them to nothing in the postseason.

[Going Underground]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

I would have gone hard after Francona in 2012 personally. It's not often that such a manager becomes available like that. There are better managers than Buck out there that haven't even been discovered yet. Who saw Dave Roberts coming? Heck, AJ Hinch won a WS in his third year as manager. There were guys out there to find and undoubtedly still are guys out there to find who would excel at being a manager. Other teams can find them and so could this one if we were interested. Maddon would have had a better chance than Showalter. The Orioles had the best competitive window since the late 90's and did nothing with it. Not even an ALCS win. That's pathetic. Showalter had a very good team in 2014 just like he had a good team in 1995 and 1999 and could lead them to nothing in the postseason.

They interviewed him a long time ago>

 

When the Orioles fired Hargrove on Sept. 29, Flanagan said, "Having Orioles ties is not a bad thing in this [managerial search] process." However, the team interviewed three candidates -- Mazzilli, Terry Francona and Tom Foley -- with no Orioles ties.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/2003/11/06/baltimore-orioles-are-down-to-three-candidates-for-manager/00f42ed7-e7d1-4dbf-8c86-206cb7462cf0/?utm_term=.57ea52641ab8

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, Sessh said:

I would have gone hard after Francona in 2012 personally. It's not often that such a manager becomes available like that. There are better managers than Buck out there that haven't even been discovered yet. Who saw Dave Roberts coming? Heck, AJ Hinch won a WS in his third year as manager. There were guys out there to find and undoubtedly still are guys out there to find who would excel at being a manager. Other teams can find them and so could this one if we were interested. Maddon would have had a better chance than Showalter. The Orioles had the best competitive window since the late 90's and did nothing with it. Not even an ALCS win. That's pathetic. Showalter had a very good team in 2014 just like he had a good team in 1995 and 1999 and could lead them to nothing in the postseason.

Clearly you don't remember the bang-up job Hinch did with Arizona in his first managerial stint.  

I'm sure Buck could lead a team like the Orioles to the playoffs if this team had Altuve, Correa, Springer, Keuchel, McCullers, and Verlander instead of Davis, Trumbo, Alvarez, Tillman, Cashner and whoever else.  Just a hunch.

[gtman55]

3 minutes ago, blid said:

I mean it's definitely because he knows Chris Davis sucked last year and he's trying creative ways to jump start him, right?  If there's any skill remaining in Davis it's Buck's job to try to shake it out.  But is there...?

That's the dilemma. Davis had a few big power years and that alone got him that ridiculous contract. It's clear his skills are diminishing but we're stuck with him for years to come. Right now, no matter where you bat him he's a liabilty. But leadoff? That's a huge reach ... almost looks desperate in a way.

[Frobby]

15 minutes ago, 24fps said:

You want to know terrible?  Terrible is batting Chris Davis leadoff for five consecutive games.  That's terrible.

Suggesting Buck might not be completely himself at the moment?  Under the circumstances, that's kind.

 

I strongly disagree.     You don’t abandon an experiment you want to try after 1-2 games.    And there was nothing terrible about the experiment in the first place.    

Now, would I have done it?    Probably not.    Would I continue it now?    No, because Davis is off to a slow start and I don’t want it to get in his head.    But I don’t have a problem with Buck trying it and sticking with it for 5 games, which is not exactly an eternity.    

[24fps]

1 minute ago, blid said:

I mean it's definitely because he knows Chris Davis sucked last year and he's trying creative ways to jump start him, right?  If there's any skill remaining in Davis it's Buck's job to try to shake it out.  But is there...?

Sure, but if there were any sign that it might work by this point I'd hold my tongue.  Last night's game was painful to watch on many levels, Davis' at bats being one of them.  I think everybody's interests would be best served by Buck acting as if this were a competitive team - which the offseason decisions and payroll suggest the organization views itself as one - and let the players live up to that standard rather than resort to creativity.

To answer your rhetorical question, I'm not at all sure that Davis has the skill at this point to produce at the level he's being paid to.