National League rules stink!!!!!

[davearm]

Well that settles that. Pitchers can hit. I hope Dave Trembley takes notice and immediately plugs Jeremy Guthrie as the everyday cleanup hitter.

The problem with your logic is that nobody has said that all pitchers can hit. Many can't.

You said pitchers can't hit, as if it was a universal truth. You were wrong.

Not that it took Felix Hernandez hitting a slam off of Santana to prove it, but it was convenient.

[ledzepp8]

The problem with your logic is that nobody has said that all pitchers can hit. Many can't.

You said pitchers can't hit, as if it was a universal truth. You were wrong.

Not that it took Felix Hernandez hitting a slam off of Santana to prove it, but it was convenient.

No I wasn't, it is the truth. Pitchers can't hit. Even your "good" hitting pitchers still suck at hitting, they just don't suck quite as badly. Maybe Micah Owings is the one exception.

Would you rather have Edmonds, Fontenot, Patterson, Cedeno etc bat in the 9th spot or Zambrano, Dempster, Hill, Lilly, Gallagher?

[davearm]

No I wasn't, it is the truth. Pitchers can't hit. Even your "good" hitting pitchers still suck at hitting, they just don't suck quite as badly. Maybe Micah Owings is the one exception.

Would you rather have Edmonds, Fontenot, Patterson, Cedeno etc bat in the 9th spot or Zambrano, Dempster, Hill, Lilly, Gallagher?

This does nothing to support your still-flawed premise.

I guess we're right back where we started. Someone forgot to tell Felix Hernandez that pitchers can't hit.

(Or Sabathia, who launched a ball 440 ft over the weekend.)

(Or Zambrano, who's carrying on an .873 OPS for the year.)

[ledzepp8]

This does nothing to support your still-flawed premise.

I guess we're right back where we started. Someone forgot to tell Felix Hernandez that pitchers can't hit.

(Or Sabathia, who launched a ball 440 ft over the weekend.)

(Or Zambrano, who's carrying on an .873 OPS for the year.)

What exactly is "flawed"? Pitchers as a whole can not hit and the occasional homerun or double doesn't change that. Wow Zambrano has an 873 OPS in 47 ABs...he also has an OPS+ of 45 for his career.

The only thing flawed is you taking me saying "pitchers can't hit" to the extreme conclusion that they can never get a base hit.

Paul Bako, Neifi Perez, Rey Ordonez, Luis Lopez, and Manny Alexander all hit homeruns before...that doesn't make them good hitters.

[tennOsfan]

This does nothing to support your still-flawed premise.

I guess we're right back where we started. Someone forgot to tell Felix Hernandez that pitchers can't hit.

(Or Sabathia, who launched a ball 440 ft over the weekend.)

(Or Zambrano, who's carrying on an .873 OPS for the year.)

Well said and documented.

This constant NL bashing is getting old. I enjoy watching pitchers take their turn at the plates. In a way, it's like imagining myself up there -- the odds are against me, but who knows? Any success they get is to be marveled at. Sort of like when a kick return is being brought back and all that's left is a little kicker getting in the way -- he makes the stop and we're left with the feeling that any of us could contribute in some small manner, if only given the opportunity.

It's not like I want to watch an entire game consisting of hitters with batting averages around .150. Of course not. But we can, and should, appreciate whatever good things a pitcher does at the plate. Then bring on the bashers.

[ledzepp8]

Well said and documented.

This constant NL bashing is getting old. I enjoy watching pitchers take their turn at the plates. In a way, it's like imagining myself up there -- the odds are against me, but who knows? Any success they get is to be marveled at. Sort of like when a kick return is being brought back and all that's left is a little kicker getting in the way -- he makes the stop and we're left with the feeling that any of us could contribute in some small manner, if only given the opportunity.

It's not like I want to watch an entire game consisting of hitters with batting averages around .150. Of course not. But we can, and should, appreciate whatever good things a pitcher does at the plate. Then bring on the bashers.

I don't think anyone necessarily has a problem with NL not having the DH. What people have a problem with is the interleague play where AL teams have to play the NL way. A lot of the stuff in this thread was tongue-in-cheek.

[davearm]

What exactly is "flawed"? Pitchers as a whole can not hit and the occasional homerun or double doesn't change that. Wow Zambrano has an 873 OPS in 47 ABs...he also has an OPS+ of 45 for his career.

The only thing flawed is you taking me saying "pitchers can't hit" to the extreme conclusion that they can never get a base hit.

Paul Bako, Neifi Perez, Rey Ordonez, Luis Lopez, and Manny Alexander all hit homeruns before...that doesn't make them good hitters.

So you're amending your position to, "pitchers can't hit, except when they can?"

Because some can. And do.

[tennOsfan]

I don't think anyone necessarily has a problem with NL not having the DH. What people have a problem with is the interleague play where AL teams have to play the NL way. A lot of the stuff in this thread was tongue-in-cheek.

I wouldn't weep if they did away with interleague play. I like the novelty of the World Series featuring teams from leagues that are different and isolated from one another.

Sure, the AL teams have a big disadvantage in the NL ballparks. As an Oriole fan, I don't like our pitchers having to go to the plate, or on the basepaths, when they aren't used to it at all. But we have our own advantage at home, where we can plug in Huff at DH, since we're set up to do so, while the NL has to scramble to put in more of a scrub at the position. So perhaps it evens out.

[davearm]

I don't think anyone necessarily has a problem with NL not having the DH. What people have a problem with is the interleague play where AL teams have to play the NL way. A lot of the stuff in this thread was tongue-in-cheek.

Both leagues are at a disadvantage playing by the other leagues' rules.

NL teams don't structure their rosters with 9 everyday hitters in mind, including one that need not have any defensive value whatsoever.

Who's at a bigger disadvantage is a hopelessly speculative and pointless discussion.

[ledzepp8]

So you're amending your position to, "pitchers can't hit, except when they can?"

Because some can. And do.

Are you trying to be obtuse? I haven't amended anything, my position is the same as it has been from the beginning. Can't hit doesn't mean never gets a hit. That being said, NL pitchers are hitting .144/.184/.182 this year...so that's as close to never as you can get.

[ledzepp8]

Both leagues are at a disadvantage playing by the other leagues' rules.

NL teams don't structure their rosters with 9 everyday hitters in mind, including one that need not have any defensive value whatsoever.

Who's at a bigger disadvantage is a hopelessly speculative and pointless discussion.

Poor NL, when they go play in an AL park they don't have to let their crappy pitcher hit...they get to actually put in a real hitter. They are at such a disadvantage, I don't even know why they show up.

[davearm]

Poor NL, when they go play in an AL park they don't have to let their crappy pitcher hit...they get to actually put in a real hitter. They are at such a disadvantage, I don't even know why they show up.

Snarky attitude aside, the disadvantage is clear... or at least it ought to be. NL teams don't roster a DH. Their "real hitter" is someone off the bench.

How about when you play NL teams at home you use Quiroz or Payton as the DH. That way both sides will be playing with 8 regulars and 1 reserve.

[orayole]

Why do the NL teams use the DH at the AL parks then? They don't have to you know....

It's because pitchers don't hit. Even a crappy hitter can hit a homerun now and then.

[BaltimoreTerp]

This does nothing to support your still-flawed premise.

I guess we're right back where we started. Someone forgot to tell Felix Hernandez that pitchers can't hit.

(Or Sabathia, who launched a ball 440 ft over the weekend.)

(Or Zambrano, who's carrying on an .873 OPS for the year.)

I find it really amusing that you are cherry-picking individuals, yet calling someone else out for making an overriding statement backed-up by stats and declaring the premise flawed.

I don't even think that is worthy of a "Pot v. Kettle" line.

[RShack]

People are having dubious arguments about not much. I don't see what the big deal is.

Both leagues are at something of a disadvantage playing by the other league's rules. So what? It's still baseball.

Even if you wanna argue that the disadvantage isn't equal, it's still basically fair: In our park we use our rules, in your park we use yours.

Hard to argue with that.

Personally, I'd much rather they fix the bats than fix this.