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National League rules stink!!!!!

Tony-OH

By Tony-OH
in Orioles Talk

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Posted
Wow...can't believe I missed that point. That is very true.

The NFL didn't care. The main reason all of Johnny Unitas' season-records and career-records are gone is because they went from 12 games to 14 games to 16 games, which is a huge difference. The only one left is The Streak (of games with TD passes) which is the one that has nothing to do with how much game he got to play.

But the NFL didn't have 100 years of records either.

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Cokeman Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Cokeman

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The whole DH debate boils down to just one simple thing that bothers me the most. When a National League team is playing in an American League park, they still have a choice of whether to use the DH or to play as they always do and let their pitchers bat...but, the AL teams are forced to play by the NL rules in a NL park and their pitcher must bat...they have no choice.

Good choice or bad choice is irrelevant to me...its still a choice that the NL has and the AL doesn't. If a NL team has their team set up so that they have role players to come in during "strategic" parts of the game, they can choose to play as they do every other day of the season...and they can choose from game to game, they aren't forced into playing it one way or the other for the whole series. AL teams in NL parks do not have that option...their pitchers will bat the whole series, no matter what.

That's it in a nutshell for me...it isn't about who has an advantage or who doesn't...its all about choices...the NL has a choice, the AL doesn't.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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The whole DH debate boils down to just one simple thing that bothers me the most. When a National League team is playing in an American League park, they still have a choice of whether to use the DH or to play as they always do and let their pitchers bat...but, the AL teams are forced to play by the NL rules in a NL park and their pitcher must bat...they have no choice.

Good choice or bad choice is irrelevant to me...its still a choice that the NL has and the AL doesn't. If a NL team has their team set up so that they have role players to come in during "strategic" parts of the game, they can choose to play as they do every other day of the season...and they can choose from game to game, they aren't forced into playing it one way or the other for the whole series. AL teams in NL parks do not have that option...their pitchers will bat the whole series, no matter what.

That's it in a nutshell for me...it isn't about who has an advantage or who doesn't...its all about choices...the NL has a choice, the AL doesn't.

How in the world does that make any difference?

They have a "choice" to hurt both their offensive production *and* their ability to make pitching decisions.

Sounds like the kind of "choice" available to somebody who's armed-and-suicidal.

It's a choice that any AL team can make all season long. Nobody in their right mind is gonna do it.

What difference does it make? It's a "choice" they'll never make. So what?

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IamtheSkip AAA

IamtheSkip

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The NFL didn't care. The main reason all of Johnny Unitas' season-records and career-records are gone is because they went from 12 games to 14 games to 16 games, which is a huge difference. The only one left is The Streak (of games with TD passes) which is the one that has nothing to do with how much game he got to play.

But the NFL didn't have 100 years of records either.

The NFL, at least near as I can tell, doesn't devote as much lore to most of its records either.

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Cokeman Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Cokeman

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How in the world does that make any difference?

They have a "choice" to hurt both their offensive production *and* their ability to make pitching decisions.

Sounds like the kind of "choice" available to somebody who's armed-and-suicidal.

It's a choice that any AL team can make all season long. Nobody in their right mind is gonna do it.

What difference does it make? It's a "choice" they'll never make. So what?

You ask "so what"? I answered that in the first sentence of my post that you quoted...it bothers me. The NL has a choice and the AL doesn't...it just bothers me.

I can tell from all of your posts that nothing ever bothers you...I'm happy for you.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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You ask "so what"? I answered that in the first sentence of my post that you quoted...it bothers me. The NL has a choice and the AL doesn't...it just bothers me.

What choice? A theoretical one? Has any team ever decided to not use the DH when they could? Ever?

AL teams can do it anytime they want. An NL team can do that whenever they play at an AL ballpark. Has any team ever done that, even once?

I can tell from all of your posts that nothing ever bothers you...I'm happy for you.

That's helpful.

You're whole point is saying that they have a choice when they really don't, any more than they "have a choice" to have P's play at other positions in the field and bat everyday.

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ledzepp8 Hangout Grand Counsel

ledzepp8

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What choice? A theoretical one? Has any team ever decided to not use the DH when they could? Ever? AL teams can do it anytime they want. An NL team can do that whenever they play at an AL ballpark. Has any team ever done that, even once?

That's helpful.

You're whole point is saying that they have a choice when they really don't, any more than they "have a choice" to have P's play at other positions in the field and bat everyday.

Well sure they do. If they find it too hard to find a competent hitter to be their DH then they can have their pitchers continue to bat. AL teams don't have that option when they play in an NL park.

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RShack Hangout Grand Counsel

RShack

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Well sure they do. If they find it too hard to find a competent hitter to be their DH then they can have their pitchers continue to bat. AL teams don't have that option when they play in an NL park.

But this is goofy. Has there ever been a team who's 9th-best hitter isn't a better offensive option than having their P's bat? There is zero advantage to not using the DH, and multiple disadvantages: it hurts your offense *and* it ties your hands about P-changes. So, how in the world is this anything but a theoretical choice that nobody in their right mind is ever gonna do?

It's no more of a choice than it's a choice to bench your best slugger and have your worst-hitting P play his position and bat for him. It's a choice in the same way that running your new car into a wall is a choice. That's theoretically a choice too, but so what? It's a choice that has zero relevance to anything real.

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longflyball Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

longflyball

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I notice that not one person in this thread (or in any argument I've ever witnessed on this topic) wants to address the ridiculous difference between the average pitcher at the plate and the average hitter. I can't say as I blame those who avoid this part of the argument. When the average hitter has a 730ish OPS and the average pitcher has a 350ish OPS, it makes it difficult to argue that pitchers should be hitting.

Without having read very much of this thread, I will address this. I readily acknowledge that pitchers are terrible hitters. I respect the argument that watching them hit is not always very compelling or entertaining. I don't claim that the double switch is a delicate science, either. Though, like Migrant Redbird, I do get a kick out of seeing a pitcher knock in two runs with a line drive to the gap, on the rare occasions that it happens, simply because it is so rare. Kind of like how the home run was more thrilling when 5' 9" shortstops weren't hitting 25 a year.

I oppose the DH because the initial reasoning behind its introduction is no longer valid. It was introduced to pump up scoring and increase fan interest. Strength training, small parks, small strike zones and whatever other factors are responsible for today's run environment mean the DH has outlived its intended purpose. It is now superfluous.

I reject the labels of "purist" and "old school", but I very much prefer low-scoring baseball. In my opinion, today's pitchers are at a competitive disadvantage. This disadvantage makes the game less entertaining. Hitters used to fear pitchers. Now pitchers fear hitters. Complete games are an anachronism because it takes 100 pitches to slog through six innings, and each pitch must be thrown at maximum effort. Oh, and on top of all that, they still have to face that extra hitter the league introduced in the 70's, back when there weren't enough runs.

I think today's pitchers deserve a break at the end of the lineup.

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Cokeman Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

Cokeman

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What choice? A theoretical one? Has any team ever decided to not use the DH when they could? Ever?

AL teams can do it anytime they want. An NL team can do that whenever they play at an AL ballpark. Has any team ever done that, even once?

That's helpful.

You're whole point is saying that they have a choice when they really don't, any more than they "have a choice" to have P's play at other positions in the field and bat everyday.

I'll put this as simply as I can...

NL teams in AL parks: You can play by your rules or our rules, it doesn't matter to us.

AL teams in NL parks: You play by our rules, or you don't play at all.

It bothers me.

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ledzepp8 Hangout Grand Counsel

ledzepp8

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But this is goofy. Has there ever been a team who's 9th-best hitter isn't a better offensive option than having their P's bat? There is zero advantage to not using the DH, and multiple disadvantages: it hurts your offense *and* it ties your hands about P-changes. So, how in the world is this anything but a theoretical choice that nobody in their right mind is ever gonna do?

It's no more of a choice than it's a choice to bench your best slugger and have your worst-hitting P play his position and bat for him. It's a choice in the same way that running your new car into a wall is a choice. That's theoretically a choice too, but so what? It's a choice that has zero relevance to anything real.

But that's the point, they wouldn't want to choose that because pitchers can't hit. People in this thread were saying that the NL was at a bigger disadvantage when adding a scrub to the lineup as a DH, than AL teams were when losing the DH, because their teams aren't built that way. The point isn't that any manager in their right mind would actually choose to continue having their pitcher hit at AL parks, only that theoretically they can...which is something that AL teams can't do when they are at NL parks. The AL is at a bigger disadvantage because the whole way they play year round is changed during interleague play while the NL, if they choose to do so, can continue to play the same way they do year round.

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