So, how would you characterize the return on the Manny trade?

[blid]

It was pretty lonely as the sole Outstanding vote, but I see some others have now joined me in my optimism.  I of course took into account the context, that this is a half season rental, and given that, I really like the return.  We got a top 100 guy, maybe pushing about 50th the next time there's a prospect rankings update.  He doesn't strike out, he's young, and he's succeeding in AA.  And then a whole mass of secondary pieces!  Maybe they're not all as highly regarded, but for the most part they come with some intrigue and up-side.  This Deanie Baby guy is putting up 14K/9.  I'm not qualified enough to rate the physical tools on all these guys but just looking at the numbers there's a lot to like.

[Going Underground]

Ask me in three years. Not really sure. If all flop or just have a cup of coffee then a bad trade. One full time player and decent reliever then a really good trade. Rating a trade the day after is just at best a guess. Injuries or anything can happen.

[Hank Scorpio]

1 hour ago, MurphDogg said:

They definitely would have gotten more two offseasons ago. Not sure that they would have gotten much more this offseason with the 2017 he had. I appreciated having a once in a generation player for an extra season and a half. They won the Wild Card in 2016 so it is tough to say it was a bad decision not to trade him following that season, it just didn't work out unfortunately. Hope he doesn't sign with the Yankees after this season.

My argument FOR trading him was the ascent of the Yankees. The Red Sox were already the best team in the division.

I didn't have much faith in the Orioles ability to win that 2nd wildcard against the rest of the American League. I believe that trading Manny & Britton then, while wildly unpopular with the fanbase, would have significantly shortened the window and was the correct play.

The brutal realities of being a mid market team in this division. 

[Camden_yardbird]

Of course we will not know for a few years.  But philosophically I like that the Orioles clearly prioritized players who were succeeding this year despite relative prospect status.  I am okay with Kremer over Alvarez if it means you get Pop too.

I think adding players who are actively achieving good results will help foster competition.  Everyone on the Bowie roster has to look at those 4 new players walking in the room and say, "as shucks", the Organization traded for these guys and not onlythat but they are having good years.  This is not only good for our team but it means if I want to keep my spot I need to step up.

[Frobby]

Jeff Sullivan seems to like it:   https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-dodgers-have-rented-the-markets-only-superstar/

[Bradysburns]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I wavered between decent and solid, but ultimately voted for decent.    I would have hoped for either a top piece with a little more polish/certainty than Diaz, or a second piece a little stronger than what we got.    However, I’m satisfied that we handled the process well and got the best deal we could, and there’s definitely some interesting talent here.    A rental will only get you so much, no matter how good the player is.

I voted decent as well. My issue was more with the secondary pieces. I would have hoped for Lux in the mix. I would have rather have had Diaz and Lux by themselves, over what we got. 

Still, I'll take decent! I was convinced we were going to screw this up badly, and we did not. So bravo. Now, let's trade Britton and Trumbo! I'd think we could get a top 100 prospect for Britton, heading into the playoffs and teams knowing how bullpens win championships. 

[AndresMora]

You trade the 4th or 5th best player in baseball because you were too dumb to keep him because you poured huge amounts of money into a useless slug and then received 5 "prospects" only one of whom is in the MLB Top 100.

This is the type thing losers always do.  They try to tempt the fans with years of development and "stars just around the corner" while other franchises win championships.  Plus, we already know that any really great players that they accidentally stumble on to will simply be leaving like Manny did eventually.  

The trade looks terrible and probably is but it won't matter in the long run either way.  That's the delight of being an Orioles fan.

 

[Mondo Trasho]

1 hour ago, bpilktree67 said:

The consequences of trading Manny after a 90 win season and a playoff berth far outweighed the differences in talent they could have got from then to now.  You take a team that had 14 years of loosing and finally was the best teams in baseball record wise over that time span and with still two years left you trade your 23 year old MVP caliber player and trade him.  The fans were just starting to come back to the last year or so from the normal the Orioles will be awful for years trade away a 23 year old potential and watch the fans flock away.  The game is still a business and they are out to make money you can't get a prize piece like him for the first time in decades and tell the fans oh we need to get rid of him cause you can't pay him two years down the line and expect fans to spend their money on that team.

I think for the most part this is a good take. However, they didn't make the right decisions in other aspects of the organization to ensure that there was enough talent in the organization to replace Manny once he was gone. That's why there's a big feeling that they should have traded him in 2016.

That's the big mistake here. And I'm not convinced the return on Manny is enough to correct that mistake.

[MurphDogg]

1 hour ago, Hank Scorpio said:

My argument FOR trading him was the ascent of the Yankees. The Red Sox were already the best team in the division.

I didn't have much faith in the Orioles ability to win that 2nd wildcard against the rest of the American League. I believe that trading Manny & Britton then, while wildly unpopular with the fanbase, would have significantly shortened the window and was the correct play.

The brutal realities of being a mid market team in this division. 

Of course, and it is a solid argument. I would have understood if they had traded Britton and Machado in that offseason and we would be closer to competing now. I understood why they didn't as well. Hopefully we get a decent return for Britton and some of these prospects pan out and (more importantly) we have a great draft next year with what looks to be a top two pick and all of the accompanying slot value. Would also be nice if Schoop catches fire over the rest of this season and he can be traded in the offseason (or if he plays well early next year, at the break).

[MikeAD]

Im not sure how you can complain about 5 players for several years vs one super star for 66 games.  Obviously Diaz is a great prospect but we already have "Depth" in the outfield.  If even one of these players becomes a contributor on the major league roster this is a steal.  We can nitpick the value of each prospect but five for one is pretty great, especially for a team with one of the emptiest and weakest farm systems in MLB.  

 

 

Well done by the FO and I fully expect more is on the way.  

[gtown]

I think we just saw the price of an elite prospect. The Indians gave up two quality relievers each with years of team control for Francisco Mejia. 

The Machado haul seems fair, reasonable and market value, maybe a bit better.

[Three Run Homer]

I voted solid.  I would use the word "outstanding" to describe the return we got for Eric Bedard--Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, George Sherrill and 2 other guys who didn't pan out.  Both Jones and Tillman were regarded as potential All-Stars at the time, and Sherrill was already a good major league pitcher who was our closer for a couple of years and made an All-Star appearance.  

This return isn't as good, but Yusniel Diaz is a potential All-Star leadoff hitter who got a $15.5 million signing bonus just a couple of years ago, and Pop, Kremer and Bannon are interesting prospects who have a decent chance of contributing at the major league level.  This is way, way more than we would have expected to get out of a comp pick, as well as much more than what Arizona paid last summer for J.D. Martinez.  

[Todd-O]

19 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

WE HAVE 3 PRO SCOUTS. The rest aren't full time major league assessors.. unless you count 82 year old Lee Thomas.Or former Agent Jerry Kapstein.

Is there a site that lists how many scouts each team has?  Three means nothing unless there is reference.

[TGO]

42 minutes ago, Roy Firestone said:

WE HAVE 3 PRO SCOUTS. The rest aren't full time major league assessors.. unless you count 82 year old Lee Thomas.Or former Agent Jerry Kapstein.

There you go, pro scouts. I think that's an important clarification. We of course have many more amateur scouts. Most teams have fewer pro scouts than amateur scouts. But 3 pro scouts is still a very low number. I recall we moved some of our pro scouts to the amateur side a few years ago (and some of them may have left after that).

[TGO]

I rate the return as somewhere between Solid and Outstanding, but voted for Outstanding because I think the vote is skewing a little low. I know some of the rumored names were sexier but I think people got themselves hung up on players that may have never been available. And losing Machado stings, of course, but this is a pretty great return for a rental.