Clemens and Steroids

[Oriole Baseball]

Listening to the Herd (say what you will), and Colin Cowherd is saying that you have to question whether or not Clemens took steroids. His career seemed to be ending in the early 90's and then he started bulking up and had a resurgence right around the time the other steroid users started bulking up.

I thought about this at the game on wednesday night, when they showed Ripken's homerun off Clemens on Opening Day in 1989 I think. He definilty was about twice the size and his head really has ballooned. Wondering what everyone on here thinks?

[Moose Milligan]

Clemens got fatter. I don't think it's all muscle.

Happens when you get older and your metabolism slows down.

He is/was notorious for a really intense workout regimen...I think 'roids is a possibility but I don't think there's that great of a chance.

I'd just like to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't really like him, but whatever...he's had an incredible career.

[ChrisP]

I think you have to question every player from the mid-90's to present.

[Dipper9]

No offense here, but who cares if Clemens was (or is) ever on steroids? Not the fans, that's for damn sure! I've been saying for years that the entire steroid controversy is all the media (and congress) blowing it way out of proportion, and that the fans don't care if the players use them or not. Need proof? Who's the starting left fielder for the National League All-Stars this year? If the fans gave even the slightest hair on a rat's a$$ about steroids, Bonds would not have been voted in! PERIOD!

I'm not saying steroids aren't bad and can kill people (Hello Mr. Benoit!) but what I AM saying is that if your team is winning and your players are doing well, the fans don't care if the players ARE using steroids, they just want a winner!

[mweb]

I'd be shocked if he hasn't used steroids.

[backwardsk]

I don't have a link, but I remember Clemens being mentioned when the Grimsley story came out. Also, unfounded rumors flew around when he would sit out the first couple of months to a season when he was with Houston. So I think the rumors have been around. Just like another poster said, everyone in this era will be under suspicion. I wouldn't doubt it.

[rolliefingers]

I'd be shocked if he hasn't used steroids.

I wouldn't go that far, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, and this whole "Clemens is a superhuman workout fiend" thing was all an act.

[Leitch]

I wouldn't go that far, but I wouldn't be surprised if he did, and this whole "Clemens is a superhuman workout fiend" thing was all an act.

Steroids would simply make his superhuman workout fiend thing possible if they are indeed a part of his success, no?

[66-70-83-??]

I think you have to question every player from the mid-90's to present.

Absolutely !!!!!!

Every player from maybe late 1980's to the present.

Put an "*" on the whole era.

[Moose Milligan]

Absolutely !!!!!!

Every player from maybe late 1980's to the present.

Put an "*" on the whole era.

Even darling Cal?

[Objectivity]

I don't think it's fair to paint everyone with the same brush. Someone who hits a home run ever few seasons and steals a bunch of bases is probably not the poster child for sticking giant needles in your butt.

The one thing to keep in mind with Clemens is that he also adapted his pitching style as he got older. When he could no longer intimidate batters he started beaning them and that gave him the inside part of the plate and more. Even now he still gets that respect even though he doesn't deserve it because every batter knows if they approach the plate honestly he'll groove a ball into them.

[ScottieBaseball]

I think you have to question every player from the mid-90's to present.

Make them all prove their innocence? McCarthy called. He said he'd like his MO back, please.

[mweb]

I don't think it's fair to paint everyone with the same brush. Someone who hits a home run ever few seasons and steals a bunch of bases is probably not the poster child for sticking giant needles in your butt.

The one thing to keep in mind with Clemens is that he also adapted his pitching style as he got older. When he could no longer intimidate batters he started beaning them and that gave him the inside part of the plate and more. Even now he still gets that respect even though he doesn't deserve it because every batter knows if they approach the plate honestly he'll groove a ball into them.

Well a couple of the guys who have been caught do fit that description. Alex Sanchez comes to mind.

[66-70-83-??]

Make them all prove their innocence? McCarthy called. He said he'd like his MO back, please.

Please.

So, what is your solution ? For MLB / MLBPA to put their collective heads back into the sand (where they were for years on this issue) and pretend there's no problems ?

No one ever suggested that players have to prove their individual innocence. Their collectively guilty in the court of public opinion- and they should be based on what has transpired over the years.

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that steroid usage was widespread enough to suspect the integrity of the game.

The way MLB / MLBPA tried to ignore this problem and sweep it under the rug for so long- do they deserve any benefit of the doubt ? NO !

Therefore, it is reasonable to question every player of this era. Maybe it isn't fair. But, you had many who did use PED's and you had many who knew about it but chose to stay silent.

It may not be "fair" that people lump Cal or Gwynn in the group but hey- they (MLBPA collectively) have to be held accountable for their actions or inactions. The fact is that they vehemently fought ANY drug testing until they were cornered by Congress on a public stage.

Until a player with credibility like say Cal (or Gwynn) comes out and spills the beans- and tells it like it was, this issue will be a dark cloud over this sport.

[ScottieBaseball]

Please.

So, what is your solution ? For MLB / MLBPA to put their collective heads back into the sand (where they were for years on this issue) and pretend there's no problems ?

No one ever suggested that players have to prove their individual innocence. Their collectively guilty in the court of public opinion- and they should be based on what has transpired over the years.

There is a lot of circumstantial evidence to suggest that steroid usage was widespread enough to suspect the integrity of the game.

The way MLB / MLBPA tried to ignore this problem and sweep it under the rug for so long- do they deserve any benefit of the doubt ? NO !

Therefore, it is reasonable to question every player of this era. Maybe it isn't fair. But, you had many who did use PED's and you had many who knew about it but chose to stay silent.

It may not be "fair" that people lump Cal or Gwynn in the group but hey- they (MLBPA collectively) have to be held accountable for their actions or inactions. The fact is that they vehemently fought ANY drug testing until they were cornered by Congress on a public stage.

Until a player with credibility like say Cal (or Gwynn) comes out and spills the beans- and tells it like it was, this issue will be a dark cloud over this sport.

I don't deny there's a dark cloud over the sport regarding steroids, but to blanket the entire era is McCarthy-esque.

Please let's keep in mind the difference between then-legal performance enhancing drugs and illegal means like HGH and anabolic steroids. I used plenty of PED's (creatine, multiple forms of andro, and ephedrine-based Ripped Fuel) when I was single and a gym rat in the late 90's and early 2000's. Until the negative side effects started coming to light, I was under the same impression that plenty of MLB'ers were...if I can walk into my local GNC, it must be okay.

I say this all the time...hindsight is 20/20. I wish I knew then what I know now regarding andro, ephedrine, etc. However, I firmly believe that a clear line needs to be established between what I took and actual illegal/illegally or illegitimately prescribed HGH and steroids.

I honestly don't know what the solution is a decade later, but I'm a firm believer in innocence until proven guilt. We can suspect all we want, but I refuse to accept a blanket scrutiny approach to an entire era until evidence surfaces otherwise.