Dan says "tear it completely down"

[Tx Oriole]

9 hours ago, Aristotelian said:

I do think AJ made a mistake. It's gonna get ugly these last two months. I don't see losing game after game with his buddies Trumbo and Davis to be a positive experience. I just feel bad for him more than anything.

I'm looking forward to some of the minors coming up. I want to see Mullins playing CF. Try AJ in RF. As for Adam he made his choice. I support him. 

 

[Tx Oriole]

11 minutes ago, Natty said:

The first step to "tear it completely down" is to get rid of the GM.

Nope. DD did the right thing. Seems John and Lou  is giving him  the chance to get things done for the better. The two folks I hope are gone is Buck and Brady. Let DD hire a new manager and Brady be a Play Girl centerfold for all I care about him. 

 

[atomic]

Tearing it down completely means getting rid of DD and Buck and the coaches. I would keep Bobby Dickerson and the rest can go find new jobs.  The amateur scouting seems decent.  We should just augment that area.  But player development needs work.  

[DJHJR86]

10 hours ago, andrewochs615 said:

 

Bordick (who we got back the next season), Surhoff, Johnson, Timlin, Baines (end of his career), and Clark (end of his career) is nowhere near comparable to a prime Machado, Schoop, Gausman, Britton, Brach, and O'Day.  

[Aristotelian]

15 minutes ago, Tx Oriole said:

I'm looking forward to some of the minors coming up. I want to see Mullins playing CF. Try AJ in RF. As for Adam he made his choice. I support him. 

 

To be clear, I fully support Jones as well. He is without question one of the all time Orioles greats. The fact that he extended to play his prime years with the Orioles sets him apart from just about anyone since Cal. I just feel bad for the guy that he has to play out his contract this way when he might have an opportunity to enhance his legacy.

[nadecir]

Dan has always been a "quantity over quality" type GM.  Whether it be rule V guys, veteran pickups in the off-season, or players acquired with trades, Duquette's mentality is to pick up many players with the hope that a few will be pleasant surprises.

This philosophy has worked out sometimes, but as shown this year, this philosophy has a risk of really absymal results.

I would prefer he mix in a few high tested prospects with these trades, but what we got should have been expected.  We received a lot of mid-range prospects with the idea that a few will turn out to better than currently expected.

[wildbillhiccup]

I don't mind tearing it down, but I'm not sure they needed to load it up with dynamite and hit the plunger. It could have taken place over a few months and Schoop and Gausman could have been traded during the off season. Teams are looking to bolster their rosters to make a playoff run in July. In December, January, etc. teams are looking to improve their rosters for the season. Plus if this off season plays out like last off season teams will be much more inclined to address their needs via trades then with bloated free agent contracts. 

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, nadecir said:

Dan has always been a "quantity over quality" type GM.  Whether it be rule V guys, veteran pickups in the off-season, or players acquired with trades, Duquette's mentality is to pick up many players with the hope that a few will be pleasant surprises.

This philosophy has worked out sometimes, but as shown this year, this philosophy has a risk of really absymal results.

I would prefer he mix in a few high tested prospects with these trades, but what we got should have been expected.  We received a lot of mid-range prospects with the idea that a few will turn out to better than currently expected.

I agree with this. I would have been fine with a middle ground. Maybe trade Schoop for Hiura (and play him next year) then go the quantity route with Gausman.  I mean,  you have to think Hiura was in play. He's major league ready and now's he's blocked by Schoop for the rest of this season and next. But alas, we get to watch Jonathan Villar butcher ground balls for the next three seasons. 

[Aristotelian]

40 minutes ago, Natty said:

The first step to "tear it completely down" is to get rid of the GM.

Depends. If his hands were tied the whole time by the owner and Special Assistant, then the first step is to free the GM to do his job.

[Aristotelian]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I agree with this. I would have been fine with a middle ground. Maybe trade Schoop for Hiura (and play him next year) then go the quantity route with Gausman.  I mean,  you have to think Hiura was in play. He's major league ready and now's he's blocked by Schoop for the rest of this season and next. But alas, we get to watch Jonathan Villar butcher ground balls for the next three seasons. 

The Brewers guy who was posting here said Hiura was never an option, and that they gave up too much for Schoop as it is.

[ISU94]

4 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I agree with this. I would have been fine with a middle ground. Maybe trade Schoop for Hiura (and play him next year) then go the quantity route with Gausman.  I mean,  you have to think Hiura was in play. He's major league ready and now's he's blocked by Schoop for the rest of this season and next. But alas, we get to watch Jonathan Villar butcher ground balls for the next three seasons. 

I love how you just assume a top 15-20 prospect was on the table for Schoop...

I highly doubt it. We are rebuilding for the next 3-5 years. Villar was an add in who has shown upside prior and could turn into a nice trade chip. Only reason we likely got him is due to their infield being loaded with zero room.

[wildbillhiccup]

Just now, ISU94 said:

I love how you just assume a top 15-20 prospect was on the table for Schoop...

I highly doubt it. We are rebuilding for the next 3-5 years. Villar was an add in who has shown upside prior and could turn into a nice trade chip. Only reason we likely got him is due to their infield being loaded with zero room.

I mean, he was rumored to be in play (at one point) in the Machado talks and Schoop is under control for a longer period of time. Also, I (once again) point to return the Padres got for Brad Hand. You can't tell me a a position player isn't worth more, even if he's under control for less time. 

[wildbillhiccup]

2 minutes ago, ISU94 said:

I love how you just assume a top 15-20 prospect was on the table for Schoop...

I highly doubt it. We are rebuilding for the next 3-5 years. Villar was an add in who has shown upside prior and could turn into a nice trade chip. Only reason we likely got him is due to their infield being loaded with zero room.

...and if you're going to mention Villar lets call a spade a spade. He's had one good year in which is value was inflated due to his stolen bases. It's pretty clear that season was an outlier. He has no upside and very limited trade value. 

[Il BuonO]

11 minutes ago, wildbillhiccup said:

I agree with this. I would have been fine with a middle ground. Maybe trade Schoop for Hiura (and play him next year) then go the quantity route with Gausman.  I mean,  you have to think Hiura was in play. He's major league ready and now's he's blocked by Schoop for the rest of this season and next. But alas, we get to watch Jonathan Villar butcher ground balls for the next three seasons. 

Villar rates as above average at 2B. Schoop has been only average since 2014.

[Brooks The Great]

I've seen a lot of posters and Orioles fan exhibit a lack of understanding that Jonathan Schoop is not a great player.

.296 career OBP, 100 OPS+. By no metric whatsoever is he a great player. He's pretty much the definition of an average everyday player. He has pop for his position, but he's a hacker. And I think he's a good bet to get bigger, slower, and more injury-prone than he already is. And ultimately, most other teams know these things about him. 

We got a good return, and I am ecstatic that a true rebuild is underway with the international market a focal point of it.