Hardball Talk: Why can't the Orioles develop pitchers?

[tntoriole]

3 hours ago, esmd said:

He didn't really answer the question.  His answer is more of a scouting issue than a development issue.  They've had talented guys come through that haven't delivered, such as Loewen, Matusz, Gausman, Bundy, etc.  Some are obviously injury related (Loewen/Bundy, and you can throw Harvey into that group), some are possibly guys that just weren't as good as they thought (Matusz), and others underachieve such as Gausman.  Then you have a guy like Britton who didn't work out as a starter but was the most dominant closer in baseball for a stretch and very good for several other years.  I get the insinuation that they're doing something wrong in their development system (i.e. after they acquire the talent), but I've yet to see concrete proof of what that is.

Throw Arrieta in that underachieve group too. 

[baltfan]

What organization is good at developing pitchers?

[eddie83]

I hate to come off as some sort of an Orioles apologist on this specific topic but do people look at the other AL East teams minus Tampa? 

I know two wrongs don’t make a right.

The Yankees truly have not drafted and developed a starter since Pettite. Now they have Severino from Int. 

Blue Jays in the last 25 years or so . Halladay and who else?  They drafted Thor and dealt him away.  

Boston since Clemens has had Lester obviously and to a lesser extent Bucholz. 

If you look at the pitchers who have produced the most in this division the last 25 years or so how many have been drafted pitchers? Once again Tampa is the exception. It seems to coincidental to me that the teams over time who seem to be the best also have pitchers parks with some exceptions.  

[fansince1988]

333--364--410--400--373--318

They have to move the fences back. Walter Johnson wouldn't be able to pitch in this ballpark.

https://www.mlb.com/orioles/ballpark/information/ground-rules

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

333--364--410--400--373--318

They have to move the fences back. Walter Johnson wouldn't be able to pitch in this ballpark.

https://www.mlb.com/orioles/ballpark/information/ground-rules

So the Oriole pitchers are good on the road?

[baltfan]

12 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

333--364--410--400--373--318

They have to move the fences back. Walter Johnson wouldn't be able to pitch in this ballpark.

https://www.mlb.com/orioles/ballpark/information/ground-rules

Honestly, left field seems the only real issue.   I would move the power alley back 10 feet. 

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, baltfan said:

Honestly, left field seems the only real issue.   I would move the power alley back 10 feet. 

I'd level the hotel.

[section18]

If someone else said what I'm about to say I don't mean to be repetitive. In fact I have said this before.  Our pitchers do not run very much and like weight lifting. They have it backwards. They should run more and forget about weight lifting. Ask Jim Palmer for an opinion and I think he will agree with what I just said. This is not complicated. In addition, if a pitcher is successful when drafted why are we changing his deiivery or anything he does?

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, section18 said:

If someone else said what I'm about to say I don't mean to be repetitive. In fact I have said this before.  Our pitchers do not run very much and like weight lifting. They have it backwards. They should run more and forget about weight lifting. Ask Jim Palmer for an opinion and I think he will agree with what I just said. This is not complicated. In addition, if a pitcher is successful when drafted why are we changing his deiivery or anything he does?

Because what works against HS hitters might not work against major league hitters?

[JR Oriole]

50 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'd level the hotel.

Having not lived in Baltimore since high school, I don't have to stare at the horrific box of ugliness like many of you who attend games do.....but I sure miss that unobstructed view with the cool light of the Bromo Seltzer Tower in the background.  I cannot believe anybody approved that piece of garbage out there.  Looks like a prison made out of an erector set. 

[Pheasants]

10 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Because what works against HS hitters might not work against major league hitters?

That is true, but I keep being surprised by statements about seemingly good AAA pitchers that they have to change to be successful in the majors. I don't seem to hear that from other organizations.

[Moose Milligan]

I think it's a combination of not being able to scout/draft and also development.  Lack of recruiting in international waters certainly doesn't help, either.

 

 

[fansince1988]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

So the Oriole pitchers are good on the road?

It's psychological. Picture this, you are the best HS pitcher in the history of your region, or the best college pitcher in the history of your Power Five Conference. Then you accomplish your dream of pitching in the big leagues, only to realize you have to pitch in a historically unforgiving ballpark in the AL EAST. I love OPCY as much or more than anyone on this board, but they need to move the fences back.

 

 

[JR Oriole]

3 minutes ago, fansince1988 said:

It's psychological. Picture this, you are the best HS pitcher in the history of your region, or the best college pitcher in the history of your Power Five Conference. Then you accomplish your dream of pitching in the big leagues, only to realize you have to pitch in a historically unforgiving ballpark in the AL EAST. I love OPCY as much or more than anyone on this board, but they need to move the fences back.

 

 

The psychological damage may come less from the ballpark and more from wearing the Orioles uniform. 

[esmd]

Here's a flaw in the logic, we've had multiple people in the GM/VPOBO role, multiple managers, scouting directors, etc.  If it truly was an organizational problem, how do people who've developed pitchers elsewhere come here and all of a sudden suck at it? Seems to me it's just hard to develop top pitchers and many teams aren't as successful at it as they (and their fans) would like.