Hardball Talk: Why can't the Orioles develop pitchers?

[Moose Milligan]

15 minutes ago, esmd said:

Here's a flaw in the logic, we've had multiple people in the GM/VPOBO role, multiple managers, scouting directors, etc.  If it truly was an organizational problem, how do people who've developed pitchers elsewhere come here and all of a sudden suck at it? Seems to me it's just hard to develop top pitchers and many teams aren't as successful at it as they (and their fans) would like.

It's possible.  IMO, it could get back to ownership not willing to pay.  I mean, Hobgood happened. 

You might be right.  But at the same time with all the high picks we've had, the amount of pitchers we've drafted, it's a bit odd that we haven't been able to draft and develop a top flight starter since Mussina.  That's a very long time ago.

That's not to say that every other team has drafted a developed a top flight starter and we haven't.  It'd require a lot of research to see if that's the case or not.  I'm assuming it's not the case.

But the Orioles are the only team I follow so they're the only ones I care about  

[O's are Legends]

2 hours ago, baltfan said:

What organization is good at developing pitchers?

The Rays

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, JR Oriole said:

Having not lived in Baltimore since high school, I don't have to stare at the horrific box of ugliness like many of you who attend games do.....but I sure miss that unobstructed view with the cool light of the Bromo Seltzer Tower in the background.  I cannot believe anybody approved that piece of garbage out there.  Looks like a prison made out of an erector set. 

When that hotel was built, it seriously downgraded Camden Yards.  I agree, who would approve that.  It could have been a block farther away and been less of an eyesore.

[webbrick2010]

9 hours ago, JR Oriole said:

Having not lived in Baltimore since high school, I don't have to stare at the horrific box of ugliness like many of you who attend games do.....but I sure miss that unobstructed view with the cool light of the Bromo Seltzer Tower in the background.  I cannot believe anybody approved that piece of garbage out there.  Looks like a prison made out of an erector set.  

And it loses millions of dollars a year, a bill paid by MD taxpayers, since in infinite govt wisdom (O'Malley) the tax payers own it.

[webbrick2010]

8 hours ago, O's are Legends said:

The Rays

The Cardinals

[Frobby]

11 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

So the Oriole pitchers are good on the road?

We’ve had a better ERA at home for several consecutive years.

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, eddie83 said:

I hate to come off as some sort of an Orioles apologist on this specific topic but do people look at the other AL East teams minus Tampa? 

I know two wrongs don’t make a right.

The Yankees truly have not drafted and developed a starter since Pettite. Now they have Severino from Int. 

Blue Jays in the last 25 years or so . Halladay and who else?  They drafted Thor and dealt him away.  

Boston since Clemens has had Lester obviously and to a lesser extent Bucholz. 

If you look at the pitchers who have produced the most in this division the last 25 years or so how many have been drafted pitchers? Once again Tampa is the exception. It seems to coincidental to me that the teams over time who seem to be the best also have pitchers parks with some exceptions.  

Here is some info I posted last off-season:

 

[spiritof66]

11 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think it's a combination of not being able to scout/draft and also development.  Lack of recruiting in international waters certainly doesn't help, either.

Some of the growth of very talented young pitchers into major league stars -- which ones get there and which ones don't -- is random. An obvious part of that is the number, nature and extent of injuries to pitchers who may be on the path to success and the extent to which those who break come back from their injuries. The randomness rewards teams that have more potential star pitchers in their system, and that number is increased if the team brings in young talent from all available sources.

The Orioles' policies with respect to international scouting, signings and development have largely cut them off from a big chunk of the talent pool, without giving them any compensating gain in access to U.S. draftees and others. It's as if the Orioles had a policy of bringing in only pitchers born from January 1 through August 31. (I'm not sure what portion of the pitching talent pool is involved, but a third seems like a reasonable guess.)  

That's a chunk of the explanation. I sure hope that someone within the organization has a clue about the rest of it, so that whatever mistakes were made in the past can be avoided in the rebuild. I would sure be thinking about hiring someone from Tampa Bay or a similar team who has some insight on what that team does differently from the Orioles in developing pitchers.

[Punchandjudy]

14 hours ago, JR Oriole said:

Having not lived in Baltimore since high school, I don't have to stare at the horrific box of ugliness like many of you who attend games do.....but I sure miss that unobstructed view with the cool light of the Bromo Seltzer Tower in the background.  I cannot believe anybody approved that piece of garbage out there.  Looks like a prison made out of an erector set. 

It's owned and run by the city b/c they thought they needed it to lure convention business.  So even though private enterprise saw no need for it, the city went ahead with it and now it hemorrhages money.  Ironically, convention business has severely decreased since the hotel was built though that has admittedly has more to do with other factors such as safety.  The white elephant stands.

[pastorfan]

21 hours ago, weams said:

 

Weams, I think it all begins with their drafting and trading. They simply have not drafted the right talent, in part. 

[weams]

1 hour ago, pastorfan said:

Weams, I think it all begins with their drafting and trading. They simply have not drafted the right talent, in part. 

I also think that our attempts to stay relevant in the playoff hunt injured us this way on several occasions and in several ways. 

[JR Oriole]

1 hour ago, Punchandjudy said:

It's owned and run by the city b/c they thought they needed it to lure convention business.  So even though private enterprise saw no need for it, the city went ahead with it and now it hemorrhages money.  Ironically, convention business has severely decreased since the hotel was built though that has admittedly has more to do with other factors such as safety.  The white elephant stands. 

It is ugly as hell and should be destroyed.  They could have put that box in a number of different places without it impacting the vista from the yard. 

[Going Underground]

2 hours ago, Punchandjudy said:

It's owned and run by the city b/c they thought they needed it to lure convention business.  So even though private enterprise saw no need for it, the city went ahead with it and now it hemorrhages money.  Ironically, convention business has severely decreased since the hotel was built though that has admittedly has more to do with other factors such as safety.  The white elephant stands.

Convention business has decreased because the convention center is too small.Lost two more conventions this year due to space limitations. Want to build out for a bigger convention center and incredibly another hotel .

[weams]

2 minutes ago, Going Underground said:

Convention business has decreased because the convention center is too small.Lost two more conventions this year due to space limitations. Want to build out for a bigger convention center and incredibly another hotel .

Thanks for that info.

[Redskins Rick]

52 minutes ago, weams said:

I also think that our attempts to stay relevant in the playoff hunt injured us this way on several occasions and in several ways. 

If they had better prioritize their own prospects, they might have kept one or two of those that got traded away.

I dont fault them for trying to stay relevant in the playoff hunt.

Clearly their pecking order wasn't ID correctly.