Joseph for the second time calls out the team

[Dark Helmet]

1 hour ago, Cy Bundy said:

Do people’s voices get old? Good managers lose influence it seems, Clev got a very good manager who lost his influence in Boston. Buck was our manager through our best days, he made an immediate difference, Dan continued to bring in bums and we were forced to play guys like....Caleb Joseph. Our defense is something like -108 in runs saved, not long ago we set a record for least errors in mlb history, I believe. Dan gave Buck 7 DH’s who can’t hit and a bullpen that can’t pitch. 

Did Bucks voice get old, or did the talent regress? My comment wasn't a knock against Buck. This team lacks good players. Even Good managers need good players to succeed. 

[weams]

1 hour ago, Cy Bundy said:

If he manages a team with a lot of good players.

That's right. Far too much credit is given to non playing components of a team. And minor leaguers struggling to get an MLB Job. Have 25 of the top guys of the 800 and you will win quite a bit. And then the chemistry will be just fine. Pies or no pies. 

[Il BuonO]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

He does if he wants to earn his reputation as a team leader.

Wieters, Hardy even Tillman were considered leaders on the team. When did you hear them speak out? Did them not being outspoken change how they were viewed in the clubhouse? No. 

You can be a leader if you’re not vocal. It’s called leading by example.

[Chromehill]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I'll argue that they needed a year this bad to smack them in the face.  If this team won 73 games this year, I think they'd still be dicking around and trying to figure out how to make us think they could have won 83 and been in the playoff hunt till the final weeks.

While this year sucked, in the end I'm partially glad it happened because it left absolutely no doubt about what this franchise needs to do.

I agree with you.  I think they looked at last year being only a few games out of the WC at the start of September and figured adding Cobb and Cashner could address the starting pitching and maybe get them back to the playoffs.  When the owner is in his late 80's and in failing health, the GM and manager are on the last year of their contracts, you can understand the decision to roll the dice and go for it in 2018. 

Problem is they rolled snake eyes and everything that could go wrong went wrong.  I think a lot of it had to do with the team not having any direction.  Britton gave an interview after going to the Yankees and said spring training had a different vibe, attitudes were different and he thought it was because too many people had their contracts expiring at the end of the season including Dan and Buck and a lot of key players and their was no talk of extensions. 

No doubt a season like this one cannot be ignored.  The big question is who is running the Orioles, hopefully that is addressed on October 1st. 

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Wieters, Hardy even Tillman were considered leaders on the team. When did you hear them speak out? Did them not being outspoken change how they were viewed in the clubhouse? No. 

You can be a leader if you’re not vocal. It’s called leading by example.

So Jones is leading by his uninterested play in right?

[Dark Helmet]

32 minutes ago, weams said:

That's right. Far too much credit is given to non playing components of a team. And minor leaguers struggling to get an MLB Job. Have 25 of the top guys of the 800 and you will win quite a bit. And then the chemistry will be just fine. Pies or no pies. 

I doubt many could name too many guys on the A's or Rays. I think alot of fans mistake Names for Talent. The O's started the year with alot of names. Didn't equate to success.

[Il BuonO]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

So Jones is leading by his uninterested play in right?

Seriously? Jones is a leader despite how he plays in RF. 

[jtschrei]

I love Joseph for doing the interview. He's giving voice to much of what the fans have been saying all year. 

As much as I like Joseph, as a catcher, he wasn't as good as Dempsey either defensively or offensively and I'm pretty sure Dempsey would be insulted if he knew we were comparing him with Joseph. 

[weams]

15 minutes ago, Dark Helmet said:

I doubt many could name too many guys on the A's or Rays. I think alot of fans mistake Names for Talent. The O's started the year with alot of names. Didn't equate to success.

I'm not talking name. I am talking  malor league talent. And you don't find that on the waiver wire,  in the KBA, or  in Independant Ball.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Cy Bundy said:

Do people’s voices get old? Good managers lose influence it seems, Clev got a very good manager who lost his influence in Boston. Buck was our manager through our best days, he made an immediate difference, Dan continued to bring in bums and we were forced to play guys like....Caleb Joseph. Our defense is something like -108 in runs saved, not long ago we set a record for least errors in mlb history, I believe. Dan gave Buck 7 DH’s who can’t hit and a bullpen that can’t pitch. 

That’s how I see it.   Even very good managers (which Buck has been for us, IMO) usually have a shelf life with a club.    8+ years is longer than most managers last.   We need to cut ties with Buck, but it won’t surprise me at all if he goes somewhere else and returns to being successful.   

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

Seriously? Jones is a leader despite how he plays in RF. 

So he leads by example even if the example is not as we would like the young players to play.

 

 

Got it.

[JR Oriole]

1 minute ago, jtschrei said:

I love Joseph for doing the interview. He's giving voice to much of what the fans have been saying all year. 

As much as I like Joseph, as a catcher, he wasn't as good as Dempsey either defensively or offensively and I'm pretty sure Dempsey would be insulted if he knew we were comparing him with Joseph. 

I do as well.  It is not okay that people have kept their jobs in spite of being horrible.  And this record is not okay, period.  63-87 would be dreadful, but to be 20 games below is another level of historical ineptitude.  I really don't care that the message came from a player that hasn't been good.  I didn't expect him to be good.  I expected most of our other "name" players to be much better.  If I am allocating the blame for this disaster across everybody, Joseph is way down on the list.  With his comments, I may now put him at the very bottom.....just because I am happy to see somebody with a damn pulse on the team.  I would love to see more of this for the next week and a half....something to entertain me and get me to October 1, when hopefully a lot of people are fired.

[Il BuonO]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

So he leads by example even if the example is not as would like the young players to play.

 

 

Go it.

I don’t think you do. Leading by example doesn’t have anything to do with on field performance.

And are you honestly saying Jones has performed worse in RF than in CF? If anything, I could see being upset with him because he didn’t move earlier off CF. Then again, that’s not really his decision.

 

[Can_of_corn]

8 minutes ago, Il BuonO said:

I don’t think you do. Leading by example doesn’t have anything to do with on field performance.

And are you honestly saying Jones has performed worse in RF than in CF? If anything, I could see being upset with him because he didn’t move earlier off CF. Then again, that’s not really his decision.

 

OK now I am lost.

I didn't compare Jones' quality of play in Center and Right.

What I said is he looks uninterested.

How can you "lead by example" in a positive manner when you don't look engaged in what you are doing?  I admit I have not watched a ton of Orioles' baseball since the switch but Jones kinda looks to me like he's playing out the string in the field.  Maybe I've just caught him at some bad times?

 

[Tony-OH]

17 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s how I see it.   Even very good managers (which Buck has been for us, IMO) usually have a shelf life with a club.    8+ years is longer than most managers last.   We need to cut ties with Buck, but it won’t surprise me at all if he goes somewhere else and returns to being successful.   

That's a fair assessment. Buck can be a good manager, and in the right situation, I could see him having success again somewhere else if he gets that opportunity.

Saying all that, is run is over here. No one should be able to survive a season like this unless everyone knew ahead of time they were going to have a season like this.

Whoever the Orioles do hire next year will probably get signed to a two-year contract knowing that they are going to lose, and lose hard for two years. Whoever is hired as the GM should have the ability to hire his own manager and coaches, but I'd be fine with rewarding longtime minor league managers Gary Kendall and Ron Johnson with some major league time if they decide to go that "temporary route".