Front Page: Spin Cycle

[weams]

27 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Great Info, thank you.  

Ok next question.  How does faster spin rate seem to effect each pitch specifcally? For all the data above, what has the most value to an analytics dept right now?

A few things I noticed.  Miguel Castro by far has the most spin on his slider.  Is that something Elias will target?

Luis Ortiz only threw one curve and topped the list. Is that reliable data?  Do we have any links to this data for our minor leaguers?

How does Tanner Scott's FB spin rate compare to the leagues' elite?  

Also, can you teach spin rate?  Or does it depend on arm speed, arm or finger length, how well you snap your wrist, etc?

 

 

There is not spin data on any minor leaguers. Not published at least. 

[Luke-OH]

19 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Great Info, thank you.  

Ok next question.  How does faster spin rate seem to effect each pitch specifcally? For all the data above, what has the most value to an analytics dept right now?

A few things I noticed.  Miguel Castro by far has the most spin on his slider.  Is that something Elias will target?

Luis Ortiz only threw one curve and topped the list. Is that reliable data?  Do we have any links to this data for our minor leaguers?

How does Tanner Scott's FB spin rate compare to the leagues' elite?  

Also, can you teach spin rate?  Or does it depend on arm speed, arm or finger length, how well you snap your wrist, etc?



I'll try to tackle the questions to the best of my knowledge.

How does faster spin rate seem to effect each pitch specifcally?  4S FB drop less when they spin faster, drop more when they spin slower. High rates play well up in the zone for whiffs, low rates play well down in the zone for GBs, moderate rates don't play very well unless there is big velocity, deception or horizontal movement. SL and CB as they spin faster tend to break later and more sharply, they don't necessarily break bigger and the pitch might not actually be more effective in a vacuum than a bigger breaking lower spin offering, but they generally help the fastball play up because they look the same for longer, making hitters hesitate. Spin axis is also important for the breaking balls, sliders especially. It's possible to spin a slider like crazy but if the laces aren't lined up correctly, it'll just spin and not move, which isn't good. Changeups move more with lower spin, spin rate is hard to assess with changeups because there are so many different changeup grips that cause the ball to do different things and depending on the grip, different spin rates and profiles are desirable. 

For all the data above, what has the most value to an analytics dept right now? I think they will look much deeper than my simplistic observations (partially because they have a lot more data in their hands, mainly because they know a lot more about this stuff than me). But the Astros definetly target high spin CBs, they like how the high spin CB and the 4S fastball combine to be better than the sum of their parts. 

Miguel Castro by far has the most spin on his slider.  Is that something Elias will target? Not sure.

Luis Ortiz only threw one curve and topped the list. Is that reliable data?  Do we have any links to this data for our minor leaguers? Teams have that data, but it's not publicly available, I wish I had access to it, it'd make assessing prospects easier. Generally there aren't huge outliers in the spin rate data, so I imagine it's close to where his CB sits regarding spin rate. There are commonly a couple hundred rpm swings, so I'd guess it's 2400-2800 rpm as far as the range of reasonable possiblities. 

How does Tanner Scott's FB spin rate compare to the leagues' elite?   It's not elite, but it's solidly above average. I think, and this is just the eye test, so take it with a grain of salt, that he had a notably higher spin rate in Bowie before he eased up his delivery. The pitch had much more ride up in the zone at that time. 

Also, can you teach spin rate?  Or does it depend on arm speed, arm or finger length, how well you snap your wrist, etc? Grips, arm speed, hand/finger length/strength/flexibility all seem to matter. I don't think snapping of the wrist is important or helpful, the highest spin CBs are held deep in the hand and thrown with premium arm speed. The Astros have had some success at improving spin rate, part of that may be teaching intent (trying to throw hard), some have speculated that it has something to do with sticky substances (Trevor Bauer has a theory that they are just good at cheating). 

[Luke-OH]

11 minutes ago, weams said:

There is not spin data on any minor leaguers. Not published at least. 

All the teams have it, just not the public. Fangraphs is posting ballpark #s on their 2019 prospect lists. I kind of wonder how teams feel about that. 

[weams]

1 minute ago, Luke-OH said:

All the teams have it, just not the public. Fangraphs is posting ballpark #s on their 2019 prospect lists. I kind of wonder how teams feel about that. 

Thank you for that clarification. Yes, Dr. Shorebird used to show me the equipment that they used to monitor it in side sessions. 

[ScGO's]

38 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

I'll try to tackle the questions to the best of my knowledge.

How does faster spin rate seem to effect each pitch specifcally?  4S FB drop less when they spin faster, drop more when they spin slower. High rates play well up in the zone for whiffs, low rates play well down in the zone for GBs, moderate rates don't play very well unless there is big velocity, deception or horizontal movement. SL and CB as they spin faster tend to break later and more sharply, they don't necessarily break bigger and the pitch might not actually be more effective in a vacuum than a bigger breaking lower spin offering, but they generally help the fastball play up because they look the same for longer, making hitters hesitate. Spin axis is also important for the breaking balls, sliders especially. It's possible to spin a slider like crazy but if the laces aren't lined up correctly, it'll just spin and not move, which isn't good. Changeups move more with lower spin, spin rate is hard to assess with changeups because there are so many different changeup grips that cause the ball to do different things and depending on the grip, different spin rates and profiles are desirable. 

For all the data above, what has the most value to an analytics dept right now? I think they will look much deeper than my simplistic observations (partially because they have a lot more data in their hands, mainly because they know a lot more about this stuff than me). But the Astros definetly target high spin CBs, they like how the high spin CB and the 4S fastball combine to be better than the sum of their parts. 

Miguel Castro by far has the most spin on his slider.  Is that something Elias will target? Not sure.

Luis Ortiz only threw one curve and topped the list. Is that reliable data?  Do we have any links to this data for our minor leaguers? Teams have that data, but it's not publicly available, I wish I had access to it, it'd make assessing prospects easier. Generally there aren't huge outliers in the spin rate data, so I imagine it's close to where his CB sits regarding spin rate. There are commonly a couple hundred rpm swings, so I'd guess it's 2400-2800 rpm as far as the range of reasonable possiblities. 

How does Tanner Scott's FB spin rate compare to the leagues' elite?   It's not elite, but it's solidly above average. I think, and this is just the eye test, so take it with a grain of salt, that he had a notably higher spin rate in Bowie before he eased up his delivery. The pitch had much more ride up in the zone at that time. 

Also, can you teach spin rate?  Or does it depend on arm speed, arm or finger length, how well you snap your wrist, etc? Grips, arm speed, hand/finger length/strength/flexibility all seem to matter. I don't think snapping of the wrist is important or helpful, the highest spin CBs are held deep in the hand and thrown with premium arm speed. The Astros have had some success at improving spin rate, part of that may be teaching intent (trying to throw hard), some have speculated that it has something to do with sticky substances (Trevor Bauer has a theory that they are just good at cheating). 

Great stuff, appreciated.  Last question.  How do they measure spin rate?  Is it a machine or camera product you can purchase? 

[Luke-OH]

4 minutes ago, ScGO's said:

Great stuff, appreciated.  Last question.  How do they measure spin rate?  Is it a machine or camera product you can purchase? 

https://rapsodo.com/baseball/pitching

This is the most popular tool as far as I'm aware. 

It's $4,000 and then S500/yr for a subscription for the corresponding app.

[ScGO's]

4 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

https://rapsodo.com/baseball/pitching

This is the most popular tool as far as I'm aware. 

It's $4,000 and then S500/yr for a subscription for the corresponding app.

Any talk about something more affordable hitting the market in the future?  I guess its kinda like radar guns.  You have to pay for quality.  I was able to purchase a JUGS gun for $400 a few months back, and that was a steal.  Its works great, but usually a JUGS or STALKER goes for $1000+. I guess its the same with this technology.

[TonySoprano]

@Luke-OH's  reports haven't gone unnoticed.   Matt Kremnitzer, now with the Athletic, gave a shut out to Luke in his latest article.
 

Quote

Still, the O’s moves tell us a couple of things. Elias wasn’t content to just run things back with the previous collection of middle infielders. Jonathan Villar, one of the team’s best trade chips heading into the 2019 season, will still see a significant number of at-bats at second base and/or shortstop. But Beckham and Valera are already gone, leaving Martin, Jackson, Steve Wilkerson and any other options the team brings in to battle for playing time in the middle infield.

One of the team’s goals has been to improve the defense up the middle, and they brought in two athletic shortstop types in Martin and Jackson to compete for playing time. Both project to be helpful in the field, though not necessarily at the plate. Villar is also a better defensive fit at second base.

The Orioles have also brought in a couple of moderately interesting relief arms in Brice and Infante to compete with the current crop of relievers. Neither has an impressive major league stat line. Brice, 26, has pitched for the Marlins and Reds and has a career 5.68 ERA and 5.25 FIP in 84 career innings. Infante, 31, made his major league debut with the White Sox in 2010, and then didn’t appear in the majors again until 2017. In 68 ⅓ innings, he’s posted a 3.56 ERA and 3.69 FIP.

Luke Siler, prospect writer for Orioles Hangout, recently noted that both pitchers have previously thrown high spin breaking balls. Fastballs and breaking balls with higher spin rates can be tougher to hit.

https://theathletic.com/762498/2019/01/11/the-orioles-havent-been-up-to-much-in-free-agency-but-theyre-still-slowly-reshaping-the-roster/?source=weeklyemail

 

 

[Luke-OH]

28 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:

@Luke-OH's  reports haven't gone unnoticed.   Matt Kremnitzer, now with the Athletic, gave a shut out to Luke in his latest article.
 

https://theathletic.com/762498/2019/01/11/the-orioles-havent-been-up-to-much-in-free-agency-but-theyre-still-slowly-reshaping-the-roster/?source=weeklyemail

 

 

I didn't catch that, good stuff, Matt is good people.