I really want to keep Villar (Update: Traded to Marlins for LHS Easton Lucas)

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Again Weams, if you think the money is being stashed for later this idea works. But, I don't think it is!

Angelos went cheap after getting burned by Albert Belle! If you are right they should have hundreds of millions stuffed away! I'm sure they don't!

I don't think anyone here is advocating for signing the "Jay Paytons of the world" Villar is not Jay Payton! PAyton had a 3.9WAR SEASON in 2002. The Orioles added him 5 years later (he was at best a 2 WAR player). # of Villars last 4 seasons were 4, 2.7, and 3.9. He admittedly had the bad season. But its clearly the one you throw out. You can likely get 3 WAR out of him for the next 3-4 seasons. If someone is not willing to pay value for that give him $6.5 per and let him play here. $6.5 per is not going to break the bank or hinder the team from spending in the future, thats if you believe they will bank the money to be used later.

Your definition of cheap isn't the same as mine.  The Tejada deal was going cheap?  The Davis contract?  They spent a reasonable amount over the years, they just didn't spend it wisely.

Do you think they should have maintained a top five payroll?

[Roll Tide]

1 minute ago, foxfield said:

Sure, of course...franchise owners are owners of business... except when it comes to that stadium.  And then it's a public trust and needs public funds.  It's also why teams move.  It is nearly impossible to move stadiums and parking lots.  Upgrade "your" stadium or new city will buy us a new one.

 

However, you are correct, running a franchise as a business and doing so successfully requires not being wasteful of resources.  Under Angelos, that has not been the case.  However, I remain open that the current rebuild can work.  But as long as the Orioles are playing in a stadium provided by public funds.  Let's not completely allow the public trust idea to escape into darkness.

 

Most good sports team owners don't rely on their toys to make them money. The Angelos family once were in that position. After making billions in the Asbestos and Tobacco cases. I doubt they are in the position to rely on milking the Orioles for income. But thats just my opinion. But you've never heard rumors of their family sqaumderimng money.

[weams]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Again Weams, if you think the money is being stashed for later this idea works. But, I don't think it is!

Angelos went cheap after getting burned by Albert Belle! If you are right they should have hundreds of millions stuffed away! I'm sure they don't!

I don't think anyone here is advocating for signing the "Jay Paytons of the world" Villar is not Jay Payton! PAyton had a 3.9WAR SEASON in 2002. The Orioles added him 5 years later (he was at best a 2 WAR player). # of Villars last 4 seasons were 4, 2.7, and 3.9. He admittedly had the bad season. But its clearly the one you throw out. You can likely get 3 WAR out of him for the next 3-4 seasons. If someone is not willing to pay value for that give him $6.5 per and let him play here. $6.5 per is not going to break the bank or hinder the team from spending in the future, thats if you believe they will bank the money to be used later.

Angelos never went smart cheap. 

[Roll Tide]

2 minutes ago, weams said:

I think none of us, none of us, know the financial situation for the ownership group or the mandate for money usage going forward. The models that I've seen used for this rebuild suggest that money will be spent when the team is competitive. Or maybe like the Tampa Bay/St Petersburg model, they will simply trade off any good players with two years left under control forever. 

Source?

The Orioles don't need to be ran like the Rays! The Rays need to be relocated and sold.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Most good sports team owners don't rely on their toys to make them money. The Angelos family once were in that position. After making billions in the Asbestos and Tobacco cases. I doubt they are in the position to rely on milking the Orioles for income. But thats just my opinion. But you've never heard rumors of their family sqaumderimng money.

I've heard of layoffs in the law firm.

[Roll Tide]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Your definition of cheap isn't the same as mine.  The Tejada deal was going cheap?  The Davis contract?  They spent a reasonable amount over the years, they just didn't spend it wisely.

Do you think they should have maintained a top five payroll?

I'm not talking about Davis era .....I'm talking about after Belle 2000-2001 90 Million, 2002 $76, 2001 $74, 2001 $63.

Tejada was a nice signing but as I recall a bargain because baseball teams didn't covet him as I recall. The 40 million he got that included a $5 million salary he played under in his 1st year was a bargain,

[Roll Tide]

17 minutes ago, weams said:

Angelos never went smart cheap. 

Agreed he was a terrible owner! He went from stupid to cheap and back to stupid! An insufferable know it all that kept the Orioles from being successful despite the nearly unlimited resources.

[Roll Tide]

17 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I've heard of layoffs in the law firm.

Really ? Source?

Also many lawyers solicit (bring business to the firm) and keep a percentage of the spoils. Im not saying all of them do and perhaps Frobby can provide some insight. Perhaps they laid off the fat and lazy ones just collecting high salaries and waiting to the phone to ring.

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I'm not talking about Davis era .....I'm talking about after Belle 2000-2001 90 Million, 2002 $76, 2001 $74, 2001 $63.

Tejada was a nice signing but as I recall a bargain because baseball teams didn't covet him as I recall. The 40 million he got that included a $5 million salary he played under in his 1st year was a bargain,

I'm not looking it up but I recall the Orioles' payroll as being mostly middle of the pack during this time period.  How high do you think it should have been?   Do you think a couple of high end signings would have made those teams successful? 

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Roll Tide said:

Really ? Source?

Also many lawyers solicit (bring business to the firm) and keep a percentage of the spoils. Im not saying all of them do and perhaps Frobby can provide some insight. Perhaps they laid off the fat and lazy ones just collecting high salaries and waiting to the phone to ring.

This was years ago, you aren't getting a source.  You were talking about rumors after all.

[thezeroes]

If Villar gets near his projected $10.4 Million in arbitration, I do not see him signing for a 3 year deal for $20 Million (Your 6.5).  I see him going through the process, if tendered a contract, and then checking the Free Agent Market after 2020.

[Roll Tide]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm not looking it up but I recall the Orioles' payroll as being mostly middle of the pack during this time period.  How high do you think it should have been?   Do you think a couple of high end signings would have made those teams successful? 

https://www.statista.com/statistics/205650/team-payroll-of-the-baltimore-orioles/

Its harder to look back at the 90s ...But 2000 and 2001 were $90 million. so payrolls in the 60s-70s was being cheap!

 

Orioles Payroll #1 in 1998 ....Top 5 in 1999 & 2000 ....  12th in 2001 ....16th in 2002 $76 (the top 5 teams $100 mm+), 13th in 2003 (Top 6 teams were 100MM +), 2004 $63 million 20th (7 teams spent at least $40 million more).

All of this before the Nationals arrived ....I'd say they were being cheap!

 

 

 

 

[Frobby]

12 hours ago, theocean said:

Since when did so many people start rooting for a multi-million-dollar corporation to make a profit in a taxpayer funded stadium?

Villar at most will cost $10M next year. If they cut him, that money isn't going to go in a piggy bank until 2020-whatever when they break it open to sign Adley to an extension.

Says you?    There are countless examples of teams that cut payroll when they are rebuilding and then spend heavily when they are contending.    

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, thezeroes said:

If Villar gets near his projected $10.4 Million in arbitration, I do not see him signing for a 3 year deal for $20 Million (Your 6.5).  I see him going through the process, if tendered a contract, and then checking the Free Agent Market after 2020.

If he has no trade market that will mean no one is really interested in giving him a big contract. Not 100% but the 2 are related.

Hes played for 3 teams in get years ..... If they dont tender him he's not getting 10.4. As mentioned perhaps he trades out some salary for stability. His agent will obviously look into his real value behind the scenes. 70 cents on the dollars and a 3-4 year deal is better than the unknown since teams seem to be soft on him as mentioned by other posters.

 

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Really ? Source?

Also many lawyers solicit (bring business to the firm) and keep a percentage of the spoils. Im not saying all of them do and perhaps Frobby can provide some insight. Perhaps they laid off the fat and lazy ones just collecting high salaries and waiting to the phone to ring.

Angelos’ law firm is constructed in such an unusual manner that I really can’t speculate on how they operate.    But certainly the key to a profitable law firm is the lawyers have to be busy.     If there’s not enough work to go around, the response is usually to trim personnel.