MLB lifers decry the state of the modern baseball: 'Unwatchable'

[Lucky_13]

I agree with some of what these old guys are saying but at the same time some of what they say just comes off as totally ignorant and bullheaded.  

Gossage, for example, complaining about "guys from harvard" thinking they're GMs, implying teams rely only on numbers/data to make decisions, when in reality the best teams rely on a mixture of analytics and scouting.  Ben Reiter talked about this extensively in Astroball and I'd bet that teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs all do the same thing.  It's really a pet peeve of mine that people discount the value of data in player evaluation because it's not what they did back in the day.     

Also what's really the point of this article? Didn't these guys say exactly what we thought they were gonna say

[LocoChris]

Every change they make is for the worse, except for increasing netting. You want to increase the pace of play? Get rid of all the damn commercials. But of course the greedy bastards would never do that. So they do all this stupid s*** to cut 2 minutes off the game time and are actually stupid enough to think that will make a difference. Manfred is a buck-toothed idiot. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 minute ago, Ohfan67 said:

I would love to see a few years of three runs per game. That would definitely speed the game up. 

Except in today's game that would mean three solo homers to go along with 12 strikeouts.  If anything is worse than today's version of baseball, it would be one with 1915 baseballs and today's strategies.  K, K, K, FO7, FO9, K, FO8, K, FO7, K, 4-3, FO7, FO7, K, K, K, K, FO8, HR... repeat.

[TonySoprano]

I wonder what they would say about Bill Walton 

 

[DrungoHazewood]

4 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

I agree with some of what these old guys are saying but at the same time some of what they say just comes off as totally ignorant and bullheaded.  

Gossage, for example, complaining about "guys from harvard" thinking they're GMs, implying teams rely only on numbers/data to make decisions, when in reality the best teams rely on a mixture of analytics and scouting.  Ben Reiter talked about this extensively in Astroball and I'd bet that teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs all do the same thing.  It's really a pet peeve of mine that people discount the value of data in player evaluation because it's not what they did back in the day.     

Also what's really the point of this article? Didn't these guys say exactly what we thought they were gonna say

Most people who read newspapers are 77 years old, and an article by grumpy old baseball players is right up that demographic.  Gossage is just mad that the natural progression of wanting win and make money means smarter people and complicated analytics will take over the game.  He wants it to be manly competition between guys with fu-manchu moustaches who don't have to think too hard.

[Bubble Buddy]

I agree with the HR/K comments. I feel like I enjoy an opposite field single now more than a HR. Or at least I'm more impressed with it.

 If the shift is here to stay, I wish there was more focus on hitting to all fields. I struggle with how pull happy the game seems to have become. I miss good hitting and great hitters. Not that they aren't out there, it's just not as much a part of the game it feels like. And the speed element too would be fun to watch if that came back at all. All the "smaller" parts of the game. 

As much as I hated when the Royals took us out in 2014, I enjoyed the uniqueness of their team. Speed, low K numbers, killer bullpen, etc. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Bubble Buddy

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

7 minutes ago, Lucky_13 said:

I agree with some of what these old guys are saying but at the same time some of what they say just comes off as totally ignorant and bullheaded.  

Gossage, for example, complaining about "guys from harvard" thinking they're GMs, implying teams rely only on numbers/data to make decisions, when in reality the best teams rely on a mixture of analytics and scouting.  Ben Reiter talked about this extensively in Astroball and I'd bet that teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Cardinals, Cubs all do the same thing.  It's really a pet peeve of mine that people discount the value of data in player evaluation because it's not what they did back in the day.     

Also what's really the point of this article? Didn't these guys say exactly what we thought they were gonna say

This article could have been much better if some solutions/alternatives were proposed. Gossage just sounds like an old crank that forgot to take his blood pressure medication. Raising the mound, moving fences back and looking at the juiced baseballs, etc. The analytical part of the game isn't going away so complaining about "Harvard guys" accomplishes nothing. 

Unless only trying to hit home runs loses it's statistical advantage nothing is going to change. Focus on that and I would love to see K rates drop too. More action is what I want to see. 

[Ohfan67]

11 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Except in today's game that would mean three solo homers to go along with 12 strikeouts.  If anything is worse than today's version of baseball, it would be one with 1915 baseballs and today's strategies.  K, K, K, FO7, FO9, K, FO8, K, FO7, K, 4-3, FO7, FO7, K, K, K, K, FO8, HR... repeat.

I would like to see it for a few years versus manipulating the ball, etc. I think that type of baseball would select for an alternative strategy. I think you posted in this thread that the homer-strikeout game was an all or nothing, one size fits all game. If the ball wasn't juiced and teams couldn't sit back and wait for the home run every game, then they would have to adapt. Plus it would speed up the game, which is not a trivial issue IMO. 

[Frobby]

By the way, I enjoyed watching tennis more when they played with wooden rackets.    More emphasis on strategy and endurance, less on just blowing balls past your opponent at 150 mph.

And I liked golf better before they had metal “woods” with club heads the size of a grapefruit.   

And I enjoyed watching football better when you could legally maim a player once he touched the football.    

[Ohfan67]

15 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Except in today's game that would mean three solo homers to go along with 12 strikeouts.  If anything is worse than today's version of baseball, it would be one with 1915 baseballs and today's strategies.  K, K, K, FO7, FO9, K, FO8, K, FO7, K, 4-3, FO7, FO7, K, K, K, K, FO8, HR... repeat.

By the way, how's that sequence really much different than what we currently have except there's six homers now instead of three? It's still pretty boring. 

[atomic]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Baseball is like pizza and sex...even when it's bad, it's good.

There's a place for analytics and I think anyone should want to have a deeper, better understanding of whatever they do no matter what their industry is.  

The part I agree with the old-timers is that it really has become home run derby every night and it's getting a little tiresome.  And I'm not just saying that because our favorite team happens to be on the cusp of obliterating the HR allowed record for a team.  It's not a well rounded game anymore, the speed element is almost all gone.  Hardly any base stealing.  It's home runs and strikeouts.  

And while I still watch as many games as I can, it's just...getting old.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on watching baseball anytime soon.  But growing up, 20 homers in a season used to mean something and a home run was something kinda special.  I think I saw the other day that full time players now average 22 homers a year.  

In that article, Rose tries to draw a correlation between the new style of the game and attendance being down, I don't think one has to do with the other.  I've said before that the home viewing experience is now surpassing anything you can get at stadiums these days.  NFL attendance is down, too.  

That said, I'm not a huge fan of the home run derby we watch every night. 

I disagree that home experience is better in baseball.  I think going to the game is more exciting.  Well more exciting when you have a good team that is trying to make the playoffs.  Cheering with the rest of the fans and the excitement plus sitting outdoors with a beer.

[LookitsPuck]

F'ing boomers, man.

[Larry18]

2 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

F'ing boomers, man.

 We should be blaming millennials and avocado toast as per usual.

[atomic]

I tend to agree with the article. The game needs rule changes.  Perhaps deaden the ball.  Allow less pitcher per game.  I don't care what statistics state I don't want to see players strike out all the time.   And the tanking.  If MLB stands by and lets the status quo go on the game won't have any fans left. 

[atomic]

10 minutes ago, Larry18 said:

 We should be blaming millennials and avocado toast as per usual.

Avocado toast is good. That is one thing we should be thanking millennial's for. Why don't they have an avocado toast stand at the park?