Another Comparison:Rangers Pitching

[HowAboutThat]

A couple days ago, I asked for a comparison of O’s-Astros. The Rangers acquired Corey Kluber yesterday, and the paper lists the new rotation that the beat writer suggested is “elite:”

Corey Kluber age 33

Mike Minor 32

Lane Lynn 32

Kyle Gibson 32

Jordan Lyles 29

Kluber cost money( 17 million for ‘20 plus 1 million buyout if the option for ‘21 doesn’t vest) but little in personell, Lyles and Gibson are moderate priced FA signees.

the reason I mention the Rangers is because I think they’ve gone about assembling their hopeful 5 in an expensive way. The Orioles are creating a wide and long road between the minors and the Show that will eliminate the need for spending 17 million for a gamble on an injured pitcher.

It looks like the Angels can take the west this season, and the Rangers are spending a lot of money on hopeful acquisitions. Thank God those days are gone for the Orioles.

[bpilktree]

The Rangers could hit a home run though if Kluber turns back to form after the freak injury he had.  It is worth the gamble imo especially with giving up no one really.  If he pitches bad it just cost money if he pitches well and the are in the race they can keep him if he pitches well but the team doesn't win they can trade him mid season and get a better return back then they gave up.  

[joelala]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

A couple days ago, I asked for a comparison of O’s-Astros. The Rangers acquired Corey Kluber yesterday, and the paper lists the new rotation that the beat writer suggested is “elite:”

Corey Kluber age 33

Mike Minor 32

Lane Lynn 32

Kyle Gibson 32

Jordan Lyles 29

Kluber cost money( 17 million for ‘20 plus 1 million buyout if the option for ‘21 doesn’t vest) but little in personell, Lyles and Gibson are moderate priced FA signees.

the reason I mention the Rangers is because I think they’ve gone about assembling their hopeful 5 in an expensive way. The Orioles are creating a wide and long road between the minors and the Show that will eliminate the need for spending 17 million for a gamble on an injured pitcher.

It looks like the Angels can take the west this season, and the Rangers are spending a lot of money on hopeful acquisitions. Thank God those days are gone for the Orioles.

I read that blurb too and had a chuckle when the word  “elite” was mentioned in regards to that group. I’d say they are “competitive.”

[Just Regular]

They've certainly unseated Allard/Jurado/Hearn with prominent veterans for the short term, nice targets if Givens is a Clase backfill for them, or if Kluber's salary has exhausted their resources such that Mancini becomes much preferable to right-handed bats at FA prices .  Their fanbase I am guessing must be frustrated by reports they are already out on Donaldson what with the club having its second new stadium in not too long.

[Frobby]

Kluber - $13.5 mm in 2020, $14 mm option in 2021 that vests if he throws 160 innings.

Lynn - $10 mm in 2020, $8 mm in 2021.

Minor - $9.5 mm in 2020

Gibson - $11 mm in 2020 (incl. $1 mm signing bonus), $10 mm in 2021 (incl, $1 mm signing bonus), $7 mm in 2022.

Lyles - $9 mm in 2020 (incl. $2 mm signing bonus), $7 mm in 2021.

Altogether that’s $53 mm for 2020,  $39 mm for four starters for 2021 (no Minor), $7 mm for Gibson only in 2022.     

Obviously, the Rangers are trying to compete for a playoff spot in 2020, after winning 78 games in 2019.    I can’t say any of those contracts are individually outrageous.    Collectively, they are expensive.    At least the commitments are relatively short term.    

[sportsfan8703]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Kluber - $13.5 mm in 2020, $14 mm option in 2021 that vests if he throws 160 innings.

Lynn - $10 mm in 2020, $8 mm in 2021.

Minor - $9.5 mm in 2020

Gibson - $11 mm in 2020 (incl. $1 mm signing bonus), $10 mm in 2021 (incl, $1 mm signing bonus), $7 mm in 2022.

Lyles - $9 mm in 2020 (incl. $2 mm signing bonus), $7 mm in 2021.

Altogether that’s $53 mm for 2020,  $39 mm for four starters for 2021 (no Minor), $7 mm for Gibson only in 2022.     

Obviously, the Rangers are trying to compete for a playoff spot in 2020, after winning 78 games in 2019.    I can’t say any of those contracts are individually outrageous.    Collectively, they are expensive.    At least the commitments are relatively short term.    

I'd say all of those pitchers are on reasonable deals.  We've completely struck out when trying to be in that price range with the likes of Ubaldo, Gallardo, Cobb, and even Cashner.  

[Frobby]

7 minutes ago, sportsfan8703 said:

I'd say all of those pitchers are on reasonable deals.  We've completely struck out when trying to be in that price range with the likes of Ubaldo, Gallardo, Cobb, and even Cashner.  

In the end, the Cashner deal wasn’t too awful, except that the team was so terrible there was no point in paying him to be decent.    He really was pretty darned good for us last year, before the trade.   And hopefully the two young guys we acquired for him will turn into something.    

[HowAboutThat]

56 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Kluber - $13.5 mm in 2020, $14 mm option in 2021 that vests if he throws 160 innings.

Lynn - $10 mm in 2020, $8 mm in 2021.

Minor - $9.5 mm in 2020

Gibson - $11 mm in 2020 (incl. $1 mm signing bonus), $10 mm in 2021 (incl, $1 mm signing bonus), $7 mm in 2022.

Lyles - $9 mm in 2020 (incl. $2 mm signing bonus), $7 mm in 2021.

Altogether that’s $53 mm for 2020,  $39 mm for four starters for 2021 (no Minor), $7 mm for Gibson only in 2022.     

Obviously, the Rangers are trying to compete for a playoff spot in 2020, after winning 78 games in 2019.    I can’t say any of those contracts are individually outrageous.    Collectively, they are expensive.    At least the commitments are relatively short term.    

That’s my point, they’re spending a lot of money on risky gambles for one or two years. They are very much thinking short term, and if Kluber doesn’t recover from his injury, that is $18 million down the toilet.

We took a risk on Karns and Smyly, but that total was only about 1.5

[Frobby]

20 minutes ago, Philip said:

That’s my point, they’re spending a lot of money on risky gambles for one or two years. They are very much thinking short term, and if Kluber doesn’t recover from his injury, that is $18 million down the toilet.

We took a risk on Karns and Smyly, but that total was only about 1.5

They’re in a different situation.   They’re trying to make a playoff run in 2020.    I don’t have any idea what their minor league pitching is like, but their rotation was really awful outside Lynn and Minor last year (7.22 ERA and 4.03 IP/start).   You’d have to think Kluber, Lyles and Gibson would be a massive improvement on that.    I can’t say it will pan out, but it might, and if not, they’re not locked in for very long.    

[maybenxtyr]

17 minutes ago, Philip said:

That’s my point, they’re spending a lot of money on risky gambles for one or two years. They are very much thinking short term, and if Kluber doesn’t recover from his injury, that is $18 million down the toilet.

We took a risk on Karns and Smyly, but that total was only about 1.5

Karns and Smyly didn't have the hardware that Kluber has. 

They gave up nothing in an off season when high end pitchers are getting $30+ million for a multiple Cy Young award winner. 

All of the other pitchers are pretty much in line with what a league average starter with the potential for an excellent season is making. They have a track record as pitchers, so a reasonable degree of expectation is there. Now, the gamble will be whether or not they have enough talent to get a shot at the WC... that's debatable.

Eventually teams get tired of losing. Also, they are opening a new ballpark.

[HowAboutThat]

7 minutes ago, maybenxtyr said:

Eventually teams get tired of losing. Also, they are opening a new ballpark.

It’s irrelevant, but I find it incredibly annoying that they managed to get the citizens of Arlington to buy them a new stadium when they had a perfectly good one two hundred yards away.

 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

It’s irrelevant, but I find it incredibly annoying that they managed to get the citizens of Arlington to buy them a new stadium when they had a perfectly good one two hundred yards away.

 

I agree, but from what I’ve heard the old one is unbearably hot in the summer.    Something they should have thought about when they built it.    

[Number5]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

I agree, but from what I’ve heard the old one is unbearably hot in the summer.    Something they should have thought about when they built it.    

Hot in Texas?  Who would have thought?

[HowAboutThat]

3 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I agree, but from what I’ve heard the old one is unbearably hot in the summer.    Something they should have thought about when they built it.    

It’s Texas. Texas is hot. That’s no reason to build a new stadium.

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

They’re in a different situation.   They’re trying to make a playoff run in 2020.    I don’t have any idea what their minor league pitching is like, but their rotation was really awful outside Lynn and Minor last year (7.22 ERA and 4.03 IP/start).   You’d have to think Kluber, Lyles and Gibson would be a massive improvement on that.    I can’t say it will pan out, but it might, and if not, they’re not locked in for very long.    

I had a look at a top 20 list and only 4 pitchers were listed.   The top two are still several years from the majors, and the others near the bottom of the top 20.    This may explain why they’re signing free agents to relatively short deals.