Maryland vs. Seton Hall

[JR Oriole]

Turge teams are the absolute best at losing road games against quality opponents.  The narrative literally never changes and the sample size is definitely big enough.  

[JR Oriole]

7 minutes ago, vatech1994 said:

The Big Ten schedule started with the road teams going 0-11.  It isn’t just Turgeon who is struggling to win on the road in conference.  But I do agree with you that he isn’t going to be a “difference maker” in a game like tonight where the team is in a funk.   He can’t coach or will them over the top.

The problem isn’t just this year.  Looking at his entire portfolio at Maryland game by game, where on his resume are the road wins against ranked teams?  A very close win against Iowa on the road may have been it.  I know it’s tough to win on the road and especially against ranked opponents, but good grief he has done it once???   Maybe he has some more against opponents who were ranked at the time (Maybe), but his career has honestly been completely unspectacular.  He would be a great assistant coach though.  

[Oriole4Life]

So frustrating to see guys continually throw up bad shots. Guys would drive right into the teeth of Seton Hall's defense and throw up off balance shots. Pass up an open jumper, drive straight at Gill and get blocked. Dumb turnovers in traffic. When we did get an open shot we would miss. Wiggins and Cowan need to step their games up - everyone does. Credit to Seton Hall for playing great defense all night. 

There isn't one guy on the team I trust to face up their defender and score 1-1. This is a jump shooting team. The inside presence is nil. Occasionally a guy will flash to the rim and receive a pass, but that is rare. 

[Wish]

Seems like this team is gonna struggle against good teams if Cowen doesn't have a good game.

 

[Satyr3206]

I know I'm beating a dead horse but this is all on Turgeon. The Coach has to have his team ready to play. And get them to run offensive sets. And play disciplined basketball. Another year with tons of talent going to waste. I could understand losing to a top 20 team, but Penn State and Seton Hall? The sooner they get rid of him the better.

[Hallas]

2 hours ago, Oriole4Life said:

So frustrating to see guys continually throw up bad shots. Guys would drive right into the teeth of Seton Hall's defense and throw up off balance shots. Pass up an open jumper, drive straight at Gill and get blocked. Dumb turnovers in traffic. When we did get an open shot we would miss. Wiggins and Cowan need to step their games up - everyone does. Credit to Seton Hall for playing great defense all night. 

There isn't one guy on the team I trust to face up their defender and score 1-1. This is a jump shooting team. The inside presence is nil. Occasionally a guy will flash to the rim and receive a pass, but that is rare. 

I believe the problems in the post are related to terrible off-ball movement.  In the Penn State game we couldn't score because we weren't hitting 3s, and because we couldn't get isolation from the screens, because roughly 0.0% of our screens successfully got the defender off the ball.  I don't really understand what Mark Turgeon's offensive philosophy is anymore.  I thought he had a rep for being a motion offense guy, but Stix can't screen to save his life, and he leaves Cowan with 2 unhindered defenders almost every time he tries, and even when he does screen successfully, he never cuts to the hoop.  He just stands around.  If he set better picks it would leave Cowan open for a 3 or with a mismatch, but he doesn't.  Sure, Cowan could stop trying to kamikaze drive it in those situations and just reset, but at some point if you want your half court offense to work, you have to do your damn job.  The best pick today was mid-court by Lindo.  Maybe they should run the screen with Lindo as the screener instead of Jalen, because Jalen blows it every single friggin time.

I guess Turgeon is running a version of a spread offense?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  But nearly every halfcourt offense requires screening to really work, and we don't have a single player who can screen consistently.  I don't understand how Turgeon/the Terps can be so bad at such a fundamental basketball concept.

[Satyr3206]

1 hour ago, Hallas said:

I believe the problems in the post are related to terrible off-ball movement.  In the Penn State game we couldn't score because we weren't hitting 3s, and because we couldn't get isolation from the screens, because roughly 0.0% of our screens successfully got the defender off the ball.  I don't really understand what Mark Turgeon's offensive philosophy is anymore.  I thought he had a rep for being a motion offense guy, but Stix can't screen to save his life, and he leaves Cowan with 2 unhindered defenders almost every time he tries, and even when he does screen successfully, he never cuts to the hoop.  He just stands around.  If he set better picks it would leave Cowan open for a 3 or with a mismatch, but he doesn't.  Sure, Cowan could stop trying to kamikaze drive it in those situations and just reset, but at some point if you want your half court offense to work, you have to do your damn job.  The best pick today was mid-court by Lindo.  Maybe they should run the screen with Lindo as the screener instead of Jalen, because Jalen blows it every single friggin time.

I guess Turgeon is running a version of a spread offense?  Correct me if I'm wrong.  But nearly every halfcourt offense requires screening to really work, and we don't have a single player who can screen consistently.  I don't understand how Turgeon/the Terps can be so bad at such a fundamental basketball concept.

I understand why. The Coach can't teach it.

[JR Oriole]

7 hours ago, vatech1994 said:

I agree with your general point but it isn’t quite as bad as you’re remembering.

Last year’s best wins on the road - we beat #21 Iowa 66-65 and Ohio State by 16

2017-2018 had no good road wins IMO

2016-2017 had solid road wins against Michigan, Iowa, Ohio St, and Minnesota, but none of them were ranked at the time.

2015-2016 had road wins against Wisconsin & Ohio St, but neither were ranked.

It isn’t great for sure.

I am pretty sure that road win against Iowa last year was the first ranked opponent we beat on their floor in the entire Turgeon era.  And that was very close to a loss.  There is no doubt it is hard to win on the road, and beating a ranked team on their floor is obviously very tough.  Look at the teams that beat Duke and Kentucky on their home courts this year.....can you imagine a Turge team doing that?  And those were nobodies. 

Couple that with his teams total lack of success in the NCAA tournament against big conference opponents and it is really very disheartening.  The whole is always less than the sum of the parts with Turge's teams, and it is really the exact opposite of what we had with Gary.  I said it on another thread somewhere....the number of times this school wins a game they are not supposed to win are extremely few and far between.  Just a very dull, underachieving decade for Maryland basketball.  I guess it will be another winter of watching highlight clips from early 2000s. 

[JR Oriole]

So this is "rock bottom," I suppose.  Interesting.  I remember Maryland hitting rock bottom in 2001 after losing at home to Florida State and getting booed off the floor.  That team then obliterated a ranked Wake team on the road, beat a ranked Oklahoma team at home, won at Number 2 Duke, and then destroyed ranked Virginia in College Park. 

Ok Turge, let's see what this squad can do after hitting rock bottom.  I am expecting nothing but big wins until Feb. 15 at Michigan State.

[Tony-OH]

It's good to see even the Turgeon supporters are starting to see the same things we've seen for years. Disorganized offense, undisciplined ball handling, poor shot selection, and a lack of fundamental play all around.

These have been staples of Turgeon's teams since he's gotten here and if it's not clear by now, it's never going to be clear.

Now, certainly the players have been playing poor, but either they aren't that good "recruiting issue" or they aren't developing "Coaching issue." Both are on Turgeon's shoulders. 

I didn't watch the game because I was at a viewing for a 3rd cousin, but I knew something was bad when my friend texted me about firing Turgeon. Reading through the game comments here gave me a pretty good idea how the game went.

It's frustrating for us all since we all want a fun, good team to root for, but I can't even get excited over this team because it's so awful to watch it play such undisciplined, bad basketball. When it does click, it's usually because someone got hot from the 3-point line or they are playing a lower-level team that can't compete with a major.

Coming into this year I was excited, but after catching a few games, I became quickly underwhelmed. Most likely it was because of their consistent poor starts that sucks the life out of the fans, but also because it was starting to become clear that the Mitchell brothers were not impact inside players and Stix had not developed his offensive game inside. With Ayala and Wiggens taking steps back, and the fact Turgeon has basically gone to a 6-player rotation (speaks to the lack of real depth) in these big games, it was becoming plain as day that this team was going to way underachieve.

I'll still try to catch games when I got nothing else going on, but I won't be buying tickets nor will I be clearing out my schedule to watch another Turgeon team underachive.

 

[Hallas]

13 hours ago, Satyr3206 said:

I know I'm beating a dead horse but this is all on Turgeon. The Coach has to have his team ready to play. And get them to run offensive sets. And play disciplined basketball. Another year with tons of talent going to waste. I could understand losing to a top 20 team, but Penn State and Seton Hall? The sooner they get rid of him the better.

Penn State is ranked, and it was a road game and our 6th game in 13 days.  These aren't pros, so I'll eat that loss.

The team looking unprepared after 11 days off isn't really acceptable.  And Seton Hall was missing 2 starters.  If Seton Hall played well and/or got lucky (shot 20/22 from 3 or something stupid like that) I'd probably be fine with it, but they didn't play particularly well and/or the Terps defense really got to them.  It's just painful watching them do nothing off-ball, throw the ball pointlessly around the perimeter, and then have Cowan Hail Mary a drive into 4 large defenders.  I don't think it's really on Cowan either, his teammates aren't doing anything to make space anywhere so he has no good options.  Turgeon always says, "pass the ball, play less selfishly!" well you can't do that if your teammates aren't in a position to receive passes!

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, Hallas said:

  Turgeon always says, "pass the ball, play less selfishly!" well you can't do that if your teammates aren't in a position to receive passes!

Kinda like when Turgeon would just tell Mello to take over with 4 minutes left in a  close game an then sit there and do nothing. That's part of my issues is the lack of in game coaching that is needed when things aren't going as planned. There are few if any adjustments and players are never held responsible for stupid mistakes by getting pulled. They just keep doing them over and over. Turgeon doesn't have to be Coach Knight, but he's way too soft on his players. 

It always reminds of the time I lost most of the respect I had for him as a coach. That was when they showed him jumping around like a school girl when the Terps got the 4th or 5th seed one year. 

This is one of the things i like about Harbaugh, in that he's always about the big goal and while he may quickly celebrate a win or in season title, he always and immediate reminds everyone that's not their goal. 

[Hallas]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Kinda like when Turgeon would just tell Mello to take over with 4 minutes left in a  close game an then sit there and do nothing. That's part of my issues is the lack of in game coaching that is needed when things aren't going as planned. There are few if any adjustments and players are never held responsible for stupid mistakes by getting pulled. They just keep doing them over and over. Turgeon doesn't have to be Coach Knight, but he's way too soft on his players. 

It always reminds of the time I lost most of the respect I had for him as a coach. That was when they showed him jumping around like a school girl when the Terps got the 4th or 5th seed one year. 

This is one of the things i like about Harbaugh, in that he's always about the big goal and while he may quickly celebrate a win or in season title, he always and immediate reminds everyone that's not their goal. 

IMO Smith is a big part of the problem.  They want to spread the floor with Ayala and Wiggins, sure I get that, they are (were?) good perimeter players.  But Smith doesn't do anything in the paint.  His only skill right now is getting in position for rebounds and putbacks.  Yet Turgeon ends up doing weird/inconsequential stuff with their lineup, like pulling Cowan for that walk-on, or swapping Morsell with Lindo.  So he was pulling players, but he's pulling the wrong ones, which is even worse than what you're saying.

I saw Lindo set the only proper pick I've seen all year.  Maybe they should put Lindo in at the 4 and run screen plays off him instead of Smith, who clearly isn't willing (or isn't able) to do it.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Hallas said:

IMO Smith is a big part of the problem.  They want to spread the floor with Ayala and Wiggins, sure I get that, they are (were?) good perimeter players.  But Smith doesn't do anything in the paint.  His only skill right now is getting in position for rebounds and putbacks.  Yet Turgeon ends up doing weird/inconsequential stuff with their lineup, like pulling Cowan for that walk-on, or swapping Morsell with Lindo.  So he was pulling players, but he's pulling the wrong ones, which is even worse than what you're saying.

I saw Lindo set the only proper pick I've seen all year.  Maybe they should put Lindo in at the 4 and run screen plays off him instead of Smith, who clearly isn't willing (or isn't able) to do it.

Smith has been a huge disappointment this year, no doubt. Is inability score around the basket hurts this team, as does the fact that the Mitchell brothers have zero offensive game either. with no inside presence, it forces things outside and they have been ice cold must of the year from 3-point. 

[Hallas]

7 hours ago, birdwatcher55 said:

How many more years left on Turgeon's contact? Is there any buyout clause? I've been following the Terps religiously since 1970 but I'm fast reaching a point where I won't watch this mediocre product again until Turgeon is gone.

2022-2023.  No buyout.

Realistically with our financial problems he's here until at least the end of next year unless he can be fired for cause.  I'd argue that he's probably here until the end of 2021-2022.  I'm willing to give him till the end of 2021 to see if he can figure out how to take the team to the next level.  That's apparently more generous than most, but I tend to dislike coaching changes.