Poll: what do you think of the Astros’ punishment?

[Enjoy Terror]

On 1/15/2020 at 11:09 AM, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm not in favor of airbrushing out history.  The titles happened.  You can't pretend that they didn't.  I was at a 2004 game at FedEx where USC beat Virginia Tech.  For some reason they get to keep that win, but not several others from that season and the next.  Nevertheless, all those games happened, millions of people saw them, and it's silly to play make-believe they didn't.  

I used to think that too, particularly when talking about the vacated wins from USC, but as I've gotten older I realize that it does have an effect; can't display trophies, can put it on banners, can't say "10x bowl winner" (or whatever number), can't use when marketing the school, players can't say they won it. It's not an insignificant penalty. 

[Enjoy Terror]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

folks want to burn the Astros not because they were cheating but because they were better at cheating.  Teams have cheated since day one.

Evidently not better at cheating. The best cheaters don't get caught.

[atomic]

9 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Evidently not better at cheating. The best cheaters don't get caught.

Yeah banging on trash cans. How clever.

[SteveA]

46 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I can't agree.  They did the same thing they just used a different method.  You can't prosecute one and not the other.  Also the MLBPA would rightfully throw a fit.

What you are talking about is pulling over motorcycles that speed but not cars.

Actually speeding is a good analogy.   Typically, at least 80% of the cars on an open road with low traffic in good weather, are in fact breaking the speed limit.   They don't pull them all over, just enough of the egregious ones to send a message that you've got a chance of getting pulled over if you break the law.

As you are being pulled over for going 74 in a 60 and the cop is at your window and a car goes by doing 79, try telling the cop it's not fair and see how far that gets you.

[Can_of_corn]

35 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

Evidently not better at cheating. The best cheaters don't get caught.

Better as in more efficient.  Hard to keep folks from talking.

[Can_of_corn]

13 minutes ago, SteveA said:

Actually speeding is a good analogy.   Typically, at least 80% of the cars on an open road with low traffic in good weather, are in fact breaking the speed limit.   They don't pull them all over, just enough of the egregious ones to send a message that you've got a chance of getting pulled over if you break the law.

As you are being pulled over for going 74 in a 60 and the cop is at your window and a car goes by doing 79, try telling the cop it's not fair and see how far that gets you.

Going Underground didn't say it was more egregious, just that it was a smaller number.  So I'm sticking with the idea that he is talking about pulling over speeding motorcycles and not cars.  How well would that work?

 

I'm also at a loss how it is more egregious to cheat via tactile sensation instead of auditory.

[Ripken]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

What you call a pittance is the maximum amount allowed.

We all know they could not be fined more based on existing agreements.  That's not the point some of us are making.  The point is, that maximum is a joke.  These are billionaire owners with teams that make enormous profits each year.  $5M is nothing to them and does not punish or dissuade anything.

Would you care about a speeding ticket if doing 90 in a 55 cost you $3?

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What you are talking about is pulling over motorcycles that speed but not cars.

Don't think it doesn't happen!

[Enjoy Terror]

2 hours ago, GuidoSarducci said:

Where was it written in the MLBs official rules that you couldn't use cameras to steal signs?

I'm interested in the answer to this question, because I don't think it was. It was in the March 27, 2018 memo from Manfred, but well after the 2017 World Series. 

[SteveA]

5 minutes ago, Enjoy Terror said:

I'm interested in the answer to this question, because I don't think it was. It was in the March 27, 2018 memo from Manfred, but well after the 2017 World Series. 

I thought it was in the Sept 2017 memo???

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I can't agree.  They did the same thing they just used a different method.  You can't prosecute one and not the other.  Also the MLBPA would rightfully throw a fit.

What you are talking about is pulling over motorcycles that speed but not cars.

MLB is a company. They don't "prosecute." They issue punishments as they see fit, based on internal rules and agreements.

This isn't like pulling over only motorcycles, only cars, or only cans of corn. MLB isn't a police department. Manfred's job is to look out for the best interests of the owners of MLB teams. That's why he let Crane off the hook, punished Luhnow and Hinch to send a message and satisfy the public, and let the players off the hook because it would have been chaos to suspend them.

Manfred made the best move for MLB. That's his job. It isn't about being fair. It's about what course of action sells the most tickets in 2020.

[Enjoy Terror]

12 minutes ago, SteveA said:

I thought it was in the Sept 2017 memo???

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/15/sports/baseball/red-sox-fined-stealing-signs-yankees.html

Sure enough

[Can_of_corn]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

MLB is a company. They don't "prosecute." They issue punishments as they see fit, based on internal rules and agreements.

This isn't like pulling over only motorcycles, only cars, or only cans of corn. MLB isn't a police department. Manfred's job is to look out for the best interests of the owners of MLB teams. That's why he let Crane off the hook, punished Luhnow and Hinch to send a message and satisfy the public, and let the players off the hook because it would have been chaos to suspend them.

Manfred made the best move for MLB. That's his job. It isn't about being fair. It's about what course of action sells the most tickets in 2020.

The players have a union.  Good luck getting the union to agree to punish players that cheated using buzzers but not players who listened for cues.

Also good luck getting the punishments past any sort of unbiased arbiter.

 

BTW Manfred's job is to make the best moves for the owners, not MLB as a whole.  Never forget that.

[Mr. Chewbacca Jr.]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

The players have a union.  Good luck getting the union to agree to punish players that cheated using buzzers but not players who listened for cues.

Also good luck getting the punishments past any sort of unbiased arbiter.

 

BTW Manfred's job is to make the best moves for the owners, not MLB as a whole.  Never forget that.

Yes, I literally said that.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Mr. Chewbacca Jr. said:

Yes, I literally said that.

Yes, you also literally said " Manfred made the best move for MLB."  You said it as some sort of closing statement.