No more argument to play Chris Davis

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Kidding yourself is the foundation of a 7-level minor league system.

So true.  But Manny and Jonathan needed people to play with in Bowie so they could get ready for Baltimore.

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

He said all this. That’s accurate. 

That said a moment of self reflection in an offseason interview is not the same as doing it. I’m sure all of us have internally debated decisions that we never made. 

He looks awful now but it comes after a great spring and a 3.5 month shutdown. I have no idea how that impacts his thoughts. 

I was replying to this post and debating his point .... With a quote that negates his point

Quote

It's obvious by now that he's not going to retire with that much money left on the table

Somebody that has no intention to retire and leave money on the table wouldn't have spoken  in that interview the way he did.

Wouldn't feel guilty about not earning his money and have a personal obligation to teammates, fans, and the organization.

Chris has performed poorly once that games have started. He's now relegated to extreme part time role.

 

 

[Tony-OH]

Chris Davis has now slashed .176/.262/.319/.581 since June 7, 2017 over 1222 PAs. I'm not sure how to check, but I wonder if any player in the major leaguers over the last 100 years has a stretch off 1222 PAs with a worse OPS? Maybe some slap hitting shortstop that brought great defensive value did, but I'd bet a good amount of money no first baseman has ever been given that many at bats where he's performed so poorly.

It's ashamed that Davis will now be remember for being one of the worse Orioles ever but he chooses to keep running himself out there and embarrassing himself. If he had a shred of dignity he'd retire, but he'll keep cashing those paychecks.

 

[Number5]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Chris Davis has now slashed .176/.262/.319/.581 since June 7, 2017 over 1222 PAs. I'm not sure how to check, but I wonder if any player in the major leaguers over the last 100 years has a stretch off 1222 PAs with a worse OPS? Maybe some slap hitting shortstop that brought great defensive value did, but I'd bet a good amount of money no first baseman has ever been given that many at bats where he's performed so poorly.

It's ashamed that Davis will now be remember for being one of the worse Orioles ever but he chooses to keep running himself out there and embarrassing himself. If he had a shred of dignity he'd retire, but he'll keep cashing those paychecks.

 

Yes, the situation with Davis is a shame.  I hate that PA hamstrung the team with this contract.  I have to admit, I figured the contract would end up not being worth it, but I had no idea that Davis would fall off a cliff so early into the contract, and stay at such a low bottom for so long.  Tragic for the team and embarrassing for Davis, I'm sure.

Having said all that, I'm not sure that I'd go so far as to question his dignity for accepting the money.  I'd say most people would accept the money, in fact.  We aren't talking about covering for a guy on your softball team that didn't have any cash on him to chip in for the pizza and beer after the game and telling him not to worry about it -- we are talking about $46 million.  Hard to pass that up when it is legally owed to you, IMO.  In fact, some might say that you have an obligation to your great-grandchildren not to throw that money away.

Like Corn has pointed out, the possibility of COVID causing further game cancellations is the only compelling reason for the Orioles to keep him on the roster, as it could enable the team to save some of that money.  When it becomes clear that there will be no such cancellations, the Orioles should cut him.  The money would truly be a sunk cost anyway at that point, so there would be no reason not to replace him with another player that might at least help the team in some way.

[Aristotelian]

20 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

It's ashamed that Davis will now be remember for being one of the worse Orioles ever but he chooses to keep running himself out there and embarrassing himself. If he had a shred of dignity he'd retire, but he'll keep cashing those paychecks.

 

I wonder if what's keeping him in the game is pressure from other players to force ownership to honor the contract. If he walks away, that is a bad precedent to set. It would be of his own volition but still not a great look for the Prince Fielders of the world if Davis were to imply that he does not deserve the money or that guaranteed contracts are in any way a bad thing. 

[Can_of_corn]

28 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Chris Davis has now slashed .176/.262/.319/.581 since June 7, 2017 over 1222 PAs. I'm not sure how to check, but I wonder if any player in the major leaguers over the last 100 years has a stretch off 1222 PAs with a worse OPS? Maybe some slap hitting shortstop that brought great defensive value did, but I'd bet a good amount of money no first baseman has ever been given that many at bats where he's performed so poorly.

It's ashamed that Davis will now be remember for being one of the worse Orioles ever but he chooses to keep running himself out there and embarrassing himself. If he had a shred of dignity he'd retire, but he'll keep cashing those paychecks.

 

Bob Uecker managed a .581 OPS over his career, 843 PA.

So yea, Davis has been on the level of a backup catcher who is better known as both an announcer and comedian.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I wonder if what's keeping him in the game is pressure from other players to force ownership to honor the contract. If he walks away, that is a bad precedent to set. It would be of his own volition but still not a great look for the Prince Fielders of the world if Davis were to imply that he does not deserve the money or that guaranteed contracts are in any way a bad thing. 

Fielder was injured.  Not the same thing at all.

[Tony-OH]

5 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Yes, the situation with Davis is a shame.  I hate that PA hamstrung the team with this contract.  I have to admit, I figured the contract would end up not being worth it, but I had no idea that Davis would fall off a cliff so early into the contract, and stay at such a low bottom for so long.  Tragic for the team and embarrassing for Davis, I'm sure.

Having said all that, I'm not sure that I'd go so far as to question his dignity for accepting the money.  I'd say most people would accept the money, in fact.  We aren't talking about covering for a guy on your softball team that didn't have any cash on him to chip in for the pizza and beer after the game and telling him not to worry about it -- we are talking about $46 million.  Hard to pass that up when it is legally owed to you, IMO.  In fact, some might say that you have an obligation to your great-grandchildren not to throw that money away.

Like Corn has pointed out, the possibility of COVID causing further game cancellations is the only compelling reason for the Orioles to keep him on the roster, as it could enable the team to save some of that money.  When it becomes clear that there will be no such cancellations, the Orioles should cut him.  The money would truly be a sunk cost anyway at that point, so there would be no reason not to replace him with another player that might at least help the team in some way.

Chris Davis has enough money for himself, his children, his grandchildren and their grand children already. Sure, you can look at like he's just taking what he's legally owed, but some of us would like to be able to look at themselves in the mirror. 

I understand not everyone will look at from this perspective, but there have been cases where players walked away from guaranteed money because they did feel they would earn it any longer. those are people I respect and who have the dignity to stand up and just say, I just can't perform any longer.

Then there are those that have no issues with putting up historically bad numbers in order to collect a giant paycheck. To each is own of course, but I have lost respect for Davis for continuing this charade. I can understand though that some people may have a differing opinion on the matter. 

[Number5]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Chris Davis has enough money for himself, his children, his grandchildren and their grand children already. Sure, you can look at like he's just taking what he's legally owed, but some of us would like to be able to look at themselves in the mirror. 

I understand not everyone will look at from this perspective, but there have been cases where players walked away from guaranteed money because they did feel they would earn it any longer. those are people I respect and who have the dignity to stand up and just say, I just can't perform any longer.

Then there are those that have no issues with putting up historically bad numbers in order to collect a giant paycheck. To each is own of course, but I have lost respect for Davis for continuing this charade. I can understand though that some people may have a differing opinion on the matter. 

I guess I look at the situation as being PA's fault, not Davis'.  I'm sure he feels bad about what has happened to his level of play, but I don't believe it was intentional.  If anyone should return money to the team, it should be PA, IMO.  In fact, I could swear that it was reported when it happened that ownership was chipping in money for that contract.  Obviously not.

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Chris Davis has now slashed .176/.262/.319/.581 since June 7, 2017 over 1222 PAs. I'm not sure how to check, but I wonder if any player in the major leaguers over the last 100 years has a stretch off 1222 PAs with a worse OPS? Maybe some slap hitting shortstop that brought great defensive value did, but I'd bet a good amount of money no first baseman has ever been given that many at bats where he's performed so poorly.

It's ashamed that Davis will now be remember for being one of the worse Orioles ever but he chooses to keep running himself out there and embarrassing himself. If he had a shred of dignity he'd retire, but he'll keep cashing those paychecks.

 

Dave McKay.  Played a fair amount of third (also some 2B, SS) in the 70s, OPS'd .580 for his career in over 2000 PAs.  There were 50 or 60 middle infielders, catchers, center fielders who had careers of over 1200 PAs and OPSes under .580 in the last century.

A little harder to find 1222 PA streaks within a career.  It's probably happened a few times, but maybe not with a true 1B/DH.

Anyone know anything about Tony Muser?  Played for the O's in '75-77, mainly a first baseman.  In '76-77 he had almost 500 PAs with a .546 OPS.  There was also a first baseman named Howie Schultz in the 40s, played for a few NL teams.  From '45-48 he had a .596 OPS in 953 PAs.

Mike Squires had a .639 OPS in his whole career, mainly at first base.  But he was one of those guys who would have been a defense-first shortstop if only he hadn't been left-handed.

And if you want to go back to ancient history, the 1800s saw a lot of stuff you'd never see today.  A guy named Herman Dehlman was primarily a first baseman in the 1870s had a .496 OPS in a 1200 PA career.  Of course that was an era with almost no homers and walks.

[NCRaven]

Personally, I would take the money.  In fact, if Davis wants to feel better about himself, he can give it to me.  Like him, I will continue to do nothing to help the Orioles win.  I won't even pretend to try.  One thing I wouldn't do is turn down his offer.

[Ruzious]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Dave McKay.  Played a fair amount of third (also some 2B, SS) in the 70s, OPS'd .580 for his career in over 2000 PAs.  There were 50 or 60 middle infielders, catchers, center fielders who had careers of over 1200 PAs and OPSes under .580 in the last century.

A little harder to find 1222 PA streaks within a career.  It's probably happened a few times, but maybe not with a true 1B/DH.

Anyone know anything about Tony Muser?  Played for the O's in '75-77, mainly a first baseman.  In '76-77 he had almost 500 PAs with a .546 OPS.  There was also a first baseman named Howie Schultz in the 40s, played for a few NL teams.  From '45-48 he had a .596 OPS in 953 PAs.

Mike Squires had a .639 OPS in his whole career, mainly at first base.  But he was one of those guys who would have been a defense-first shortstop if only he hadn't been left-handed.

And if you want to go back to ancient history, the 1800s saw a lot of stuff you'd never see today.  A guy named Herman Dehlman was primarily a first baseman in the 1870s had a .496 OPS in a 1200 PA career.  Of course that was an era with almost no homers and walks.

They certainly were.  Dehlman led the league in walks in 1875 with 11, and he was in the top 10 4 years - even though his career-high was 11.  And he had 1 fewer career homers than Glenn Gulliver.  Died at age 32 or 33 - not sure if it was over guilt about not playing up to his contract.     

[Tony-OH]

57 minutes ago, Number5 said:

I guess I look at the situation as being PA's fault, not Davis'.  I'm sure he feels bad about what has happened to his level of play, but I don't believe it was intentional.  If anyone should return money to the team, it should be PA, IMO.  In fact, I could swear that it was reported when it happened that ownership was chipping in money for that contract.  Obviously not.

It's is 100% PAs fault for giving out that contract. That we can agree on. Scott Boros should have been fined for elder abuse during that negotiation.

[Tony-OH]

25 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Dave McKay.  Played a fair amount of third (also some 2B, SS) in the 70s, OPS'd .580 for his career in over 2000 PAs.  There were 50 or 60 middle infielders, catchers, center fielders who had careers of over 1200 PAs and OPSes under .580 in the last century.

A little harder to find 1222 PA streaks within a career.  It's probably happened a few times, but maybe not with a true 1B/DH.

Anyone know anything about Tony Muser?  Played for the O's in '75-77, mainly a first baseman.  In '76-77 he had almost 500 PAs with a .546 OPS.  There was also a first baseman named Howie Schultz in the 40s, played for a few NL teams.  From '45-48 he had a .596 OPS in 953 PAs.

Mike Squires had a .639 OPS in his whole career, mainly at first base.  But he was one of those guys who would have been a defense-first shortstop if only he hadn't been left-handed.

And if you want to go back to ancient history, the 1800s saw a lot of stuff you'd never see today.  A guy named Herman Dehlman was primarily a first baseman in the 1870s had a .496 OPS in a 1200 PA career.  Of course that was an era with almost no homers and walks.

Is there a way to look up numbers over 1222 PA streak? I mean, I guy could of had a .580 OPS over 2000 PAs, but never had a block of 1222 PAs where he OPS'd under .600.

[accinfo]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

It's is 100% PAs fault for giving out that contract. That we can agree on. Scott Boros should have been fined for elder abuse during that negotiation.

Tony, you are just happy Haney or Vinnie didn't ask you on your segment today, "What about Chris Davis".  LOL.   In a side note the other Khris Davis with the A's is turning into the Orioles Chris Davis.