If only Elias hadn't traded the 11th best player in baseball (Bundy) for next to nothing

[Roll Tide]

27 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Do you consider average good?  I consider average, average.  Good is better than average.

It’s better than bad 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, SteveA said:

The Astros got a Hall of Famer for Larry Andersen.   The deal which all mid-season reliever deals are measured against.

No comparison! Andersen was a 3 WAR guy in '89. 

[Roll Tide]

13 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yes.  A typical team has seven or eight relievers and someone like Castro is the 4th guy out of the pen.  Do you really want to go to arb with your 6th inning guy?

Also, remember that average among the pool of all relievers includes any number of guys who aren't going to have careers.  Castro has thrown 278 innings since he came up in 2015.  If you look at everyone who's thrown 200+ innings as mostly a reliever in that timeframe, Castro is 108th of 129 pitchers in ERA+.  Since '15 he has basically the same results in the same number of innings as TJ McFarland or Matt Albers.

Really don’t care about ARB! As I mentioned, saved money doesn’t matter unless it spent elsewhere.

The payroll has been slashed from 163.6 million in 2017 to $72 million last year. In the abbreviated year they are listed as dead last at $23.9 million. I’m betting that includes the salaries of the guys who have been dealt.

They have spent some money improving the scouting and international programs. But they have not spent the anywhere close to that.

Saving is great if they are going to spend it later. I seriously doubt that’s the case.

Im fine with them dealing Castro. I don’t care about him one way or the other. 
 

But, I am not going to loudly proclaim the trade for Smith plus whatever else that hadn’t been named yet is an Elias won trade. 
 

I will have an opinion after I see the full trade. But I’m not getting my hopes up.

If you want to call it a win because we dumped Castro and saved $3 million that’s your right. But, as stated, I don’t care about the money going into the pockets of Angelos never to be seen again

[Can_of_corn]

22 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

It’s better than bad 

As Mr Lewis said, cool is a rule but sometimes bad is bad.

[DrungoHazewood]

19 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Really don’t care about ARB! As I mentioned, saved money doesn’t matter unless it spent elsewhere.

The payroll has been slashed from 163.6 million in 2017 to $72 million last year. In the abbreviated year they are listed as dead last at $23.9 million. I’m betting that includes the salaries of the guys who have been dealt.

They have spent some money improving the scouting and international programs. But they have not spent the anywhere close to that.

Saving is great if they are going to spend it later. I seriously doubt that’s the case.

Im fine with them dealing Castro. I don’t care about him one way or the other. 
 

But, I am not going to loudly proclaim the trade for Smith plus whatever else that hadn’t been named yet is an Elias won trade. 
 

I will have an opinion after I see the full trade. But I’m not getting my hopes up.

If you want to call it a win because we dumped Castro and saved $3 million that’s your right. But, as stated, I don’t care about the money going into the pockets of Angelos never to be seen again

I'm just going to have to remember all of your trade opinions are based on a world where money is not a thing.

[Sports Guy]

23 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Really don’t care about ARB! As I mentioned, saved money doesn’t matter unless it spent elsewhere.

The payroll has been slashed from 163.6 million in 2017 to $72 million last year. In the abbreviated year they are listed as dead last at $23.9 million. I’m betting that includes the salaries of the guys who have been dealt.

They have spent some money improving the scouting and international programs. But they have not spent the anywhere close to that.

Saving is great if they are going to spend it later. I seriously doubt that’s the case.

Im fine with them dealing Castro. I don’t care about him one way or the other. 
 

But, I am not going to loudly proclaim the trade for Smith plus whatever else that hadn’t been named yet is an Elias won trade. 
 

I will have an opinion after I see the full trade. But I’m not getting my hopes up.

If you want to call it a win because we dumped Castro and saved $3 million that’s your right. But, as stated, I don’t care about the money going into the pockets of Angelos never to be seen again

You not caring about it doesn’t mean you are right or that the team is dumb to not consider it.

Intelligent franchises (all businesses) take all of this into account.

[Sports Guy]

It is funny how upset people can get over trades that send off average players who are set to make more money than they are worth.

If that is your biggest gripe, things are likely going well.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

I'm just going to have to remember all of your trade opinions are based on a world where money is not a thing.

Not every trade ....Givens is the only deal that Elias has made that I like. With the payroll so low I’m sure you’ll admit that they don’t need to slash payroll?

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

You not caring about it doesn’t mean you are right or that the team is dumb to not consider it.

Intelligent franchises (all businesses) take all of this into account.

I’m saying that a few million doesn’t matter as much as the payroll has been slashed. It’s smart if it’s a saved resource. I don’t believe it is. In a normal year they’d still want to sell tickets.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Not every trade ....Givens is the only deal that Elias has made that I like. With the payroll so low I’m sure you’ll admit that they don’t need to slash payroll?

I don't like a fair number of the trades but I don't see how you can't be on board for the Castro return. 

[LTO's]

7 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

With Castro you get a hard throwing guy that struggles with control.

It's 2020, those guys are a dime a dozen. Almost every major league bullpen has multiple guys who can throw 96+. Castro has been the same player for 5 years and going on 4 teams with moderate improvement along the way. He will be costly next year and will enter free agency soon after that. There is absolutely no way he was going to be a part of the Os hopeful competitive future given his service time. A back of the rotation starter is more valuable than a middling/unreliable reliever. 

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I’m saying that a few million doesn’t matter as much as the payroll has been slashed. It’s smart if it’s a saved resource. I don’t believe it is. In a normal year they’d still want to sell tickets.

I am not saying you are wrong to point out that the money really doesn't matter in relation to where the payroll is and where it could be.

However, paying 3M for something you can get for 500K is dumb.  Combine that with the idea that you have similar upside pitchers to take his place AND you got back a solid prospect and the deal becomes a no brainer.

[billw76]

It's easy to look back now and say the Bundy trade was bad and we should have gotten more. IMO if we couldn't get more from a team as pitching needy as the Angels are, that says a lot about Bundys value at the time. 

 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, billw76 said:

It's easy to look back now and say the Bundy trade was bad and we should have gotten more. IMO if we couldn't get more from a team as pitching needy as the Angels are, that says a lot about Bundys value at the time. 

 

Or Elias' ability to negotiate.  /shrug.

[billw76]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Or Elias' ability to negotiate.  /shrug.

I think some are valuing Bundy based off of this season, and not the Bundy of the past few years. He never lived up to his potential here, and I honestly don't think Elias or many other GMs could have gotten more for him.