Roch on the OF situation

[Legend_Of_Joey]

I think we might see McKenna for a look this weekend, since he traveled with the club. If Hays isn’t back yet, they can make some room with some shuffling of the line up. McKenna in right, Mullins in center, Mountcastle in left, Stewart at DH. 

[now]

30 minutes ago, weams said:

He'll only get better. He is much faster than anyone thought. 

How ironic is that? The most old-school metric with the most lo-tech tool: ye olde stopwatch.

[HowAboutThat]

32 minutes ago, weams said:

He'll only get better. He is much faster than anyone thought. 

I have no opinion on his speed or arm strength or accuracy. I don’t know what his weaknesses are, but even Mountcastle himself said he hoped his defense would be serviceable. I was watching and saw a terrible throw to third. It wasn’t a particularly long throw, and he had time to throw accurately, but he threw short, it bounced, and Ruiz couldn’t handle the bounce. No error was called, but each player deserved one, although I don’t know which was worse.

The single before the first home run: I don’t know whether a better route to the ball would have made it catchable: it didn’t appear MC had very far to run to get to it, but his route to the ball was wandering and Slow. McDonald said it looked like he lost the ball, and that could be true, though it could also be making excuses.
The feeling is that we can live with bad defense, but only if the bat continues to be good.

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I definitely think Elias should explore this.  

Who do we have who has meaningful trade value?

[luismatos4prez]

Good point by Roch. Stewart, Mountcastle, Hays, Mullins, Diaz, McKenna, and Santander is too much even if you assume injuries and scuffling.

Plenty of teams need outfielders. Most notably the Indians. Send one of them over there for an infielder or a pitcher.

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

How is switch hitting his problem?

You think if he goes up against LHP left handed he's going to improve enough to play versus lefties?

Left handed pitching is a problem.

Because he sucks at it. All you have to do is look at his splits to tell.

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Because he sucks at it. All you have to do is look at his splits to tell.

But you think he's going to suck less batting L/L? 

Why?

Most hitters do worse in that situation.

Isn't the more likely answer simply not to play him against left handed pitching?

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

There is no universe where Mancini is a better defensive OF than Santander.    I have no idea what you’re watching.   

I will grant you this, BB-ref and Fangraphs vary widely on Santander’s defense this year.    BB-ref has him as a big plus, Fangraphs has him as a big minus.    But they both agree Mancini is very bad.   And Statcast has Santander in the 75th percentile in outs above average.    Give me Santander over Mancini in the OF all day every day.  
 

I really don’t want either:... personally I’d like them at 1B/DH and have a good defensive OF. 
 

I don’t think Nunez will hit for a high average/OBP. We need to move on from those types of guys especially when they are limited defensively 

BTW, I believe in the big minus. As I mentioned, watching him in the OF he never made plays look easy. He might not have committed errors which will make your fielding percentage looks fine. I urge you to go back and take a closer look at the fielding plays. He never seemed to be able to park under a ball. Always needed to reach out to grab a ball at the last second. 

[Roll Tide]

6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

But you think he's going to suck less batting L/L? 

Why?

Most hitters do worse in that situation.

Isn't the more likely answer simply not to play him against left handed pitching?

Could be :.. but he may be better just hitting LH. Alberto is a good example of that. 
 

If not you likely move on

[Just Regular]

While I want to see the best guys do the Lindor Cohort courtship next year (looking at you Adley, Hall and happy health thoughts for Baumann), I think I feel like we are still in Talent Accumulation phase and this offseason may be a little early for exchanging assets for different assets just to get it all on the field.  I'll Pipp Rio if we can get Justin Turner I suppose, but I think his audition can continue next spring otherwise.

In 2021, I hope Mountcastle and Santander consolidate for 150 games, and Hays gets the chance to keep up with them.  Mullins has played his way back into the 4th OF picture, and I think is a good complement to the starting trio.  This DJ Stewart run feels too Traber to be true - he obviously has full time run now, and can probably DH to open next year assuming Mancini won't be Opening Day ready.

Yusniel 2021 = Mountcastle 2020.  Memorial Day could get interesting as Super Two passes and Mancini is perhaps ready around the same time, but I'm not sure what the worst of the April/May crunch is.   Nunez just doing the HR/RBI thing at 1B in this setup.

Assuming Yusniel can approach Mountcastle/Santander's overall productivity with a bigger defensive slice of the pie, Hyde could have the "young DH" thing to manage by 2022.

[HowAboutThat]

17 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

I really don’t want either:... personally I’d like them at 1B/DH and have a good defensive OF. 
 

I don’t think Nunez will hit for a high average/OBP. We need to move on from those types of guys especially when they are limited defensively 

BTW, I believe in the big minus. As I mentioned, watching him in the OF he never made plays look easy. He might not have committed errors which will make your fielding percentage looks fine. I urge you to go back and take a closer look at the fielding plays. He never seemed to be able to park under a ball. Always needed to reach out to grab a ball at the last second. 

I agree, but where I think you are missing is that despite his flaws, Santandar is our best overall (Healthy) outfielder and arguably our only true front-line outfielder. Mullins can’t really hit. He has a .365 BABIP but only a 103 WRC.

if the Powers Really believe that Stewart and Mountcastle  are acceptable on defense, then Santander Is the only one with meaningful trade value.

[Sports Guy]

52 minutes ago, Philip said:

Who do we have who has meaningful trade value?

Plenty of players have real value.  Any number of the young arms, young OFers, etc...

 

[beantownrefugee]

1 hour ago, weams said:

I'm not optimistic on a return of Trey Mancini.  Hopeful, but not optimistic. 

Pains me to say this,  but there is a chance the O's don't tender Trey a contract.  He's ARB-2 for next season, cost $4.75M this season (times 60/162).  It would be a difficult decision from a personal and PR point of view.  But if it doesn't look probable he'll play much next season, Trey might not be tendered.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, beantownrefugee said:

Pains me to say this,  but there is a chance the O's don't tender Trey a contract.  He's ARB-2 for next season, cost $4.75M this season (times 60/162).  It would be a difficult decision from a personal and PR point of view.  But if it doesn't look probable he'll play much next season, Trey might not be tendered.

I understand the logic of what you are saying but I don't see a scenario in which they just cut him.  It would be too large a PR hit.  Now could the team and Mancini work out a lower base salary one year deal with incentives?  That I could see.

[beantownrefugee]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

I understand the logic of what you are saying but I don't see a scenario in which they just cut him.  It would be too large a PR hit.  Now could the team and Mancini work out a lower base salary one year deal with incentives?  That I could see.

Agreed the contract you suggest would be most optimal.  

Other piece of the puzzle with Trey would be to shift him to 1B, cut Davis, so that Trey wouldn't be part of the OF playing time calculus.