Jump to content

Tracking Ex Oriole Thread


Rene88

Recommended Posts

52 minutes ago, atomic said:

I hope he keeps it going.  I hope all ex Orioles do well.  It seems people enjoy when of our guys have a rough spot with a new team.   For example Cashner.  Dont understand that.

There's no great mystery to it.  It's just frustrating when another team benefits from the performance of someone we gave up on.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BRobinsonfan said:

I'm happy he's having some success... but at 28 he's a bit late on the development curve. I hope I'm wrong but it wouldn't surprise me to see him regress next year.   

Of course, I'm happy for him too. But another point is that, in a season of the O's playing last-place ball, he would have been a great story--one that could have gone in so many interesting directions. If the Oriole beat writers couldn't make hay with that one, they should all find other careers. (I remember watching Carl play ever since his sophomore year with the Red Sox and he always had my respect, along with Kaline, Killebrew, Oliva, Carew, Clemente et al. It would have been a great trip down the genealogical Memory Lane--and that it was happening on the rival Orioles would have made it all the more enjoyable.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

There's no great mystery to it.  It's just frustrating when another team benefits from the performance of someone we gave up on.  

We gave up on him so why shouldn't he succeed?  Dont understand it.  It's not like we are in a playoff hunt against his team. I thought we should have given him a chance as bad our team was.  

 

47 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Oh good Lord, I  can't believe you would post that here on an Orioles forum. It's  about their obnoxious, entitled bandwagon fans. Papa destroying phone in roid-rage, how good it felt when MAndino broke their hearts. Their pink and the green hats, their propensity to argue everything.  I actually  PREFER to sit next to a MFNY fan at OPACY, they usually understand the game and know the players. 

I hated the team that Adino knocked out of the playoffs.  But I didnt like their players. But never hated the like the old Yankees teams with Texeira and company.

  I have nothing against the current group.  If we were both battling for a playoff spot I am sure I wouldn't like them but right now they are just another team with some good players.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t.   Then again, I never expected him to do what he’s done this year, so maybe he’ll surprise me again next year.  

Even if were to regress next year, he would have been a great Oriole story to complement the other unexpected individual successes--the ones you listed in another thread--that have made this season's team more enjoyable to follow than last year's more star-studded roster.

Also, I'd like finally to get rid of the O's horrible reputation for letting go of players who flourish elsewhere.

On the other hand, Yaz catching fire here might have delayed the integration of Stewart into the lineup and the experiments with Smith, Jr., Wilkerson in CF, and Santander.

Another idle contemplation: If Davis had not still been on the roster and Mancini were playing first, I wonder if Yaz wd have gotten his chance here.... In retrospect, he may turn out to have been the first ML roster casualty of the Davis contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, atomic said:

We gave up on him so why shouldn't he succeed?  Dont understand it.  It's not like we are in a playoff hunt against his team. I thought we should have given him a chance as bad our team was.  

 

I hated the team that Adino knocked out of the playoffs.  But I didnt like their players. But never hated the like the old Yankees teams with Texeira and company.

  I have nothing against the current group.  If we were both battling for a playoff spot I am sure I wouldn't like them but right now they are just another team with some good players.  

Yeah, I guess Red Sox fans shouldn't have been frustrated that their team traded Babe Ruth for $25K.  Win, win for both sides.  You've convinced me.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, LA2 said:

Even if were to regress next year, he would have been a great Oriole story to complement the other unexpected individual successes--the ones you listed in another thread--that have made this season's team more enjoyable to follow than last year's more star-studded roster.

Also, I'd like finally to get rid of the O's horrible reputation for letting go of players who flourish elsewhere.

On the other hand, Yaz catching fire here might have delayed the integration of Stewart into the lineup and the experiments with Smith, Jr., Wilkerson in CF, and Santander.

Another idle contemplation: If Davis had not still been on the roster and Mancini were playing first, I wonder if Yaz wd have gotten his chance here.... In retrospect, he may turn out to have been the first ML roster casualty of the Davis contract.

Christian Walker wants to have a word...

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

I’d be shocked if he doesn’t.   Then again, I never expected him to do what he’s done this year, so maybe he’ll surprise me again next year.  

You know with all this talk about what a breakout season Yastrzemski is having I just realized that Santander is having an even better season.  

In nearly the same amount of playing time Santander has a 2.1 WAR, (to Yaz's 1.9) a higher batting average, an identical .ops+ and they're within 1 of each other in rbi's.    After last night Santander has 16 HR's to Yaz's 18.  Plus, he's only 24 and Yastrzemski is 29.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, BRobinsonfan said:

You know with all this talk about what a breakout season Yastrzemski is having I just realized that Santander is having an even better season.  

In nearly the same amount of playing time Santander has a 2.1 WAR, (to Yaz's 1.9) a higher batting average, an identical .ops+ and they're within 1 of each other in rbi's.    After last night Santander has 16 HR's to Yaz's 18.  Plus, he's only 24 and Yastrzemski is 29.

I’d much rather have Santander.    But, I’m still impressed with what Yaz has been able to do this year.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Doesn't bother me.  Seems like sour grapes.

I should clarify, I don't actually root for former O's to fail... far from it.  Nick Markakis and Adam Jones, for example, are long time favorites that I regularly follow and root for... I still hope Nick can get to 3,000 hits. So it's more frustration rather than any ill will towards former O's that go elsewhere and perform well.  And that frustration isn't really directed at the player - it's more focused the organization or just "fate."  It's like with Jake Arrieta... after 3 1/2 frustrating seasons with us it was hard to watch him, practically overnight, turn his whole career around while wearing the uniform of another team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, BRobinsonfan said:

I should clarify, I don't actually root for former O's to fail... far from it.  Nick Markakis and Adam Jones, for example, are long time favorites that I regularly follow and root for... I still hope Nick can get to 3,000 hits. So it's more frustration rather than any ill will towards former O's that go elsewhere and perform well.  And that frustration isn't really directed at the player - it's more focused the organization or just "fate."  It's like with Jake Arrieta... after 3 1/2 frustrating seasons with us it was hard to watch him, practically overnight, turn his whole career around while wearing the uniform of another team.

Happens to every team.  Part of the game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BRobinsonfan said:

Well, I'll be... I've just done some research and you know... you're absolutely right.  And not only that... it's apparently been going on for a long time.  ?

It happens to every team, but Arrieta is a very extreme example.   Plus, you have to view it in a context of a team that’s had hardly any good starting pitchers for two decades.    It’s not like we’re the Astros, giving up on JD Martinez but having a great offensive team anyway.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Posts

    • The same thing was happening was MacDonald was the DC and when Wink was the DC, that makes me put most of the blame on Harbaugh 
    • dWAR is just the run value for defense added with the defensive adjustment.  Corner OF spots have a -7.5 run adjustment, while CF has a +2.5 adjustment over 150 games.    Since Cowser played both CF and the corners they pro-rate his time at each to calculate his defensive adjustment. 
    • Just to be clear, though, fWAR also includes a substantial adjustment for position, including a negative one for Cowser.  For a clearer example on that front, as the chart posted higher on this page indicates, Carlos Santana had a +14 OAA — which is the source data that fWAR’s defensive component is based on. That 14 outs above average equates to 11-12 (they use different values on this for some reason) runs better than the average 1B.  So does Santana have a 12.0 defensive value, per fWAR? He does not. That’s because they adjust his defensive value downward to reflect that he’s playing a less difficult/valuable position. In this case, that adjustment comes out to -11.0 runs, as you can see here:   So despite apparently having a bona fide Gold Glove season, Santana’s Fielding Runs value (FanGraphs’ equivalent to dWAR) is barely above average, at 1.1 runs.    Any good WAR calculation is going to adjust for position. Being a good 1B just isn’t worth as much as being an average SS or catcher. Just as being a good LF isn’t worth as much as being an average CF. Every outfielder can play LF — only the best outfielders can play CF.  Where the nuance/context shows up here is with Cowser’s unique situation. Playing LF in OPACY, with all that ground to cover, is not the same as playing LF at Fenway or Yankee Stadium. Treating Cowser’s “position” as equivalent to Tyler O’Neill’s, for example, is not fair. The degree of difficulty is much, much higher at OPACY’s LF, and so the adjustment seems out of whack for him. That’s the one place where I’d say the bWAR value is “unfair” to Cowser.
    • Wait a second here, the reason he's -0.1 in bb-ref dwar is because they're using drs to track his defensive run value.  He's worth 6.6 runs in defense according to fangraphs, which includes adjustments for position, which would give him a fangraphs defensive war of +0.7.
    • A little funny to have provided descriptions of the hits (“weak” single; “500 foot” HR). FIP doesn’t care about any of that either, so it’s kind of an odd thing to add in an effort to make ERA look bad.  Come in, strike out the first hitter, then give up three 108 MPH rocket doubles off the wall. FIP thinks you were absolutely outstanding, and it’s a shame your pathetic defense and/or sheer bad luck let you down. Next time you’ll (probably) get the outcomes you deserve. They’re both flawed. So is xFIP. So is SIERA. So is RA/9. So is WPA. So is xERA. None of them are perfect measures of how a pitcher’s actual performance was, because there’s way too much context and too many variables for any one metric to really encompass.  But when I’m thinking about awards, for me at least, it ends up having to be about the actual outcomes. I don’t really care what a hitter’s xWOBA is when I’m thinking about MVP, and the same is true for pitchers. Did you get the outs? Did the runs score? That’s the “value” that translates to the scoreboard and, ultimately, to the standings. So I think the B-R side of it is more sensible for awards.  I definitely take into account the types of factors that you (and other pitching fWAR advocates) reference as flaws. So if a guy plays in front of a particular bad defense or had a particularly high percentage of inherited runners score, I’d absolutely adjust my take to incorporate that info. And I also 100% go to Fangraphs first when I’m trying to figure out which pitchers we should acquire (i.e., for forward looking purposes).  But I just can’t bring myself say that my Cy Young is just whichever guy had the best ratio of Ks to BBs to HRs over a threshold number of innings. As @Frobby said, it just distills out too much of what actually happened.
    • We were all a lot younger in 2005.  No one wanted to believe Canseco cause he’s a smarmy guy. Like I said, he was the only one telling the truth. It wasn’t a leap of faith to see McGwire up there and Sosa up there and think “yeah, those guys were juicing” but then suddenly look at Raffy and think he was completely innocent.  It’s a sad story. The guy should be in Hall of Fame yet 500 homers and 3,000 hits are gone like a fart in the wind cause his legacy is wagging his finger and thinking he couldn’t get caught.  Don’t fly too close to the sun.  
    • I think if we get the fun sprinkler loving Gunnar that was in the dugout yesterday, I don’t think we have to worry about him pressing. He seemed loose and feeling good with the other guys he was with, like Kremer.
  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...