Jose Iglesias traded to Angels.

[Frobby]

As for the Orioles, they’ve been frank about not competing this year. They’re not even making motions toward the 2021 team’s record; it’s all about the process, or whatever baseball-specific term you want to use for a long-term tank and rebuild operation. Viewed through that lens, Iglesias doesn’t help them at all — an excellent player in 2021 isn’t very useful if you’re planning on being terrible in 2021.

Stallings and Pinto might be long-shots to make the major league roster, but if you truly ascribe no value to a win in the 2021 season, the only objective with Iglesias was to find the highest possible return in trade. Two pitching lottery tickets isn’t terrible, particularly given the league-wide context: there are plenty of shortstop options on the free agent market, and the Indians are waving Francisco Lindor around while screaming “payroll flexibility!” at the top of their lungs.

If you accept the Orioles’ framing of things, the worst outcome imaginable would be failing to trade Iglesias. Wait too long for a deal, and things could fall through. If they thought this represented 90% of their best-case return for him, it would be wise to take that rather than risk missing completely.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jose-iglesias-is-now-an-angel/

[Roll Tide]

19 minutes ago, Frobby said:

As for the Orioles, they’ve been frank about not competing this year. They’re not even making motions toward the 2021 team’s record; it’s all about the process, or whatever baseball-specific term you want to use for a long-term tank and rebuild operation. Viewed through that lens, Iglesias doesn’t help them at all — an excellent player in 2021 isn’t very useful if you’re planning on being terrible in 2021.

Stallings and Pinto might be long-shots to make the major league roster, but if you truly ascribe no value to a win in the 2021 season, the only objective with Iglesias was to find the highest possible return in trade. Two pitching lottery tickets isn’t terrible, particularly given the league-wide context: there are plenty of shortstop options on the free agent market, and the Indians are waving Francisco Lindor around while screaming “payroll flexibility!” at the top of their lungs.

If you accept the Orioles’ framing of things, the worst outcome imaginable would be failing to trade Iglesias. Wait too long for a deal, and things could fall through. If they thought this represented 90% of their best-case return for him, it would be wise to take that rather than risk missing completely.

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/jose-iglesias-is-now-an-angel/

Here

 

Quote

And I think we got two quality arms from the Angels. One of whom, in particular, is somebody that we’ve been focused on since he was in the 2019 draft, Garrett Stallings, one of the best pitchers in the Southeastern Conference that year. Went in the fifth round. We were impressed with him then and while he has not officially played professional baseball because he was shut down after throwing 100 innings at Tennessee, which the Angels do with their draft picks, and then the minor league cancellation is here, we got to scout him in person and also video and data this year through their instructional league. He also appeared briefly at their summer camp when they had some spots open up due to some players leaving camp on their team.

https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/12/elias-discusses-todays-activity.html

[HowAboutThat]

2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Except they aren’t playing with spare parts and more of the (hopeful) long term pieces will be up this year too.

In that case, yes I would agree, if he’s ready bring him up. But that would require several meaningful milestones to be met. First, our pitching has to be good, secondly our defense, regardless of how we assemble it, has to be good. Next, we have to be doing well relative to the competition. Finally, AR himself has to be wildly surpassing anything expected of him to this point. If he is merely “making progress as expected” that’s not a reason to bring him up

If those things are true, then sure, bring him up.

I am pretty optimistic about our pitching, but much less so about our defense, and even less so about our offense, and if one of the three things is present, that still leaves a lot that remains

[Sports Guy]

20 minutes ago, Philip said:

In that case, yes I would agree, if he’s ready bring him up. But that would require several meaningful milestones to be met. First, our pitching has to be good, secondly our defense, regardless of how we assemble it, has to be good. Next, we have to be doing well relative to the competition. Finally, AR himself has to be wildly surpassing anything expected of him to this point. If he is merely “making progress as expected” that’s not a reason to bring him up

If those things are true, then sure, bring him up.

I am pretty optimistic about our pitching, but much less so about our defense, and even less so about our offense, and if one of the three things is present, that still leaves a lot that remains

I don’t really understand these parameters.  The only thing that matters is how well he is doing and if he is healthy.

[HowAboutThat]

28 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I don’t really understand these parameters.  The only thing that matters is how well he is doing and if he is healthy.

All right, I will explain in words of few syllables: If the team is terrible there’s no reason to bring him up.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Philip said:

All right, I will explain in words of few syllables: If the team is terrible there’s no reason to bring him up.

That’s just wrong.

[Tony-OH]

Anyone find it's interesting that the Angels never pitched their 2019 draft picks after signing them that year but now have traded away their 5th, 6th, and 8th round selections to the Orioles.

I'm guessing Elias was a big fan of their draft.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Tony-OH said:

Anyone find it's interesting that the Angels never pitched their 2019 draft picks after signing them that year but now have traded away their 5th, 6th, and 8th round selections to the Orioles.

I'm guessing Elias was a big fan of their draft.

I am also betting that Elias was a big fan of not pitching the guys and instead hitting them with guided instruction.

[SteveA]

18 hours ago, Frobby said:

I liked the remark that Stallings was considered maybe just a tick behind Bradish.   

But I’m not gonna lie, I kind of hate this trade.    Iglesias was good value for the money, and a steadying veteran presence.   I feel like we are really tanking the 2021 season now.    Honestly I’m kind of surprised they tendered Mancini a contract, given his salary and the uncertainty about how well he’ll bounce back.  

I don’t see this as a pure salary dump by any means.   If they didn’t want Iglesias’ option year they could have declined it.    I don’t think Elias makes this move unless he thinks Stallings and Pinto are good prospects.    And I trust his judgment on that score.   But it’s going to be 3-5 years before these guys are ready for the majors, and now we’ve gone from having a decent SS to being terrible at that spot.    That’s hard for me to take even if there’s a rational basis for it.  

The thing is, we are starting to see signs that they are REALLY concerned, even about "small" amounts of money.   They would have had to pay $500K if they declined Iglesias's option, they got out of it for free this way.   In addition, we heard talk that coaching moves were at least partly due to financial reasons.   And that probably was under a million too.

So we are seeing signs that not only are they concerned about money, but there are POSSIBLE indications they are so concerned that "trivial" amounds like half a million might be influencing decisions.  

Now that doesn't square with tendering Mancini.   But maybe they felt the PR hit would just be too much if they didn't.   It would get rid of any plausible deniability that money wasn't the #1 factor... for Iglesias they can talk up Stallings and Pinto, for the coaching situation they can claim it is based on what coaches they really wanted.   So we can look at those moves and see indications that saving even small amounts of money has become an overriding priority, but we can't prove it.   Non-tendering a guy coming off 5 months of chemotherapy would be about absolutely nothing but money and would be such a bad look that they couldn't get away with it.

[LookinUp]

3 hours ago, LTO's said:

I actually have agreed with almost every move Elias has made recently but one gripe I have is the way he talks to the media. How he addressed the Alberto situation referencing the CBA and the winning "switch" was a horrible look. I think he is too smart for his own good and thought the brutally honest route was the way to go without realizing that sports deal with a lot of real human emotion. There's a definite middle ground between the non-speak mumbo jumbo that plagued Duquette towards the end and outright saying we aren't trying to spend money on our product. I ultimately think that if he brings a winning team to Baltimore all will be forgiven and we won't be thinking about the 2020 offseason. I personally believe he will because he's incredibly bright and has already improved the farm by some 20 odd spots in two years while delivering on his promise to give out high bonuses to international players.

I honestly feel like even this board, which has a lot of people who know a lot more about baseball than me, falls into the sentimental trap. I think that's part of being a fan, so I kind of support it to be honest.

But I think this poster is right to point out that Elias just isn't playing that game. He's not blowing smoke, except for the quality of the guys we got back. Hopefully that's all true.

[Oriole1940]

I see a lot of discussion about Stallings, but not much about Pinto.  Would that be because there is more  readily available info on Stallings, or due to the fact that Pinto, at least in this point in time, is not considered to be as good a pitcher.  IMO if one of the two turn out to be a steady, solid Pitcher for the Orioles, that would be a  HR for us.  

[owknows]

10 minutes ago, Oriole1940 said:

I see a lot of discussion about Stallings, but not much about Pinto.  Would that be because there is more  readily available info on Stallings, or due to the fact that Pinto, at least in this point in time, is not considered to be as good a pitcher.  IMO if one of the two turn out to be a steady, solid Pitcher for the Orioles, that would be a  HR for us.  

I'm gonna guess it's because Stallings is old enough to shave

[Number5]

54 minutes ago, SteveA said:

The thing is, we are starting to see signs that they are REALLY concerned, even about "small" amounts of money.   They would have had to pay $500K if they declined Iglesias's option, they got out of it for free this way.   In addition, we heard talk that coaching moves were at least partly due to financial reasons.   And that probably was under a million too.

So we are seeing signs that not only are they concerned about money, but there are POSSIBLE indications they are so concerned that "trivial" amounds like half a million might be influencing decisions.  

Now that doesn't square with tendering Mancini.   But maybe they felt the PR hit would just be too much if they didn't.   It would get rid of any plausible deniability that money wasn't the #1 factor... for Iglesias they can talk up Stallings and Pinto, for the coaching situation they can claim it is based on what coaches they really wanted.   So we can look at those moves and see indications that saving even small amounts of money has become an overriding priority, but we can't prove it.   Non-tendering a guy coming off 5 months of chemotherapy would be about absolutely nothing but money and would be such a bad look that they couldn't get away with it.

Actually, IIRC, they told the coaches that they let go that is was about the money.  It appears that it was, in fact, based on what coaches they really wanted, IMO.

[Roll Tide]

2 hours ago, Oriole1940 said:

I see a lot of discussion about Stallings, but not much about Pinto.  Would that be because there is more  readily available info on Stallings, or due to the fact that Pinto, at least in this point in time, is not considered to be as good a pitcher.  IMO if one of the two turn out to be a steady, solid Pitcher for the Orioles, that would be a  HR for us.  

Well he’s 19 from the Dominican Republic so info will be limited. What he has done is pitched about 12 innings in DSL rookie ball. He gave up 12 hits , 3 walks , and struck out 19. His era was 2.25.... they used him as a starter where he pitched 4 innings per start. His GB rate is 55% .

[HowAboutThat]

5 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

That’s just wrong.

Three syllables! Points for you! But still wrong...