O's @ Gnats 5-22

[Philip]

15 minutes ago, WillyM said:

 

Taylor Caldwell died in 1985.  Her book "Dialogues with the Devil" was written in 1967.

I never read that one, but I did once read Caldwell's book "The Devil's Advocate," written in 1952. 

My high school English teacher had suggested that those of us who were looking for a book on which to do a book report might want to read "The Devil's Advocate."  So I went to the local library, found Caldwell's book, wrote my report on it, and handed it in.

The teacher took one look at my report, came to my desk, and told me I'd gotten the author's name wrong.  I protested that I was sure I was right.

After he read my synopsis, he realized that the book I had read, though it had the same title, was a completely different book from the one he had recommended, which was written by Morris West in 1959, seven years after Caldwell's novel.  He had no idea that Caldwell's book existed.

I eventually read West's book as well.  I thought both of them were interesting.

I haven’t read Devil’s Advocate. I’ve read several Caldwell novels and liked them all even though a few read like soap operas.

do you recommend it?

Dialogues with the Devil Was astonishing, I couldn’t put it down. And it’s very creepy how noble Lucifer is. And his argument is entirely logical.

[LA2]

6 hours ago, Philip said:

I haven’t read Devil’s Advocate. I’ve read several Caldwell novels and liked them all even though a few read like soap operas.

do you recommend it?

Dialogues with the Devil Was astonishing, I couldn’t put it down. And it’s very creepy how noble Lucifer is. And his argument is entirely logical.

That's what I remember of Caldwell's work when I tried reading a book or two back in the early 1970s--not being able to get into the conventional narratives and voice. So it surprises me that there was also something with an intriguing concept like you describe in Devil's Advocate. That Lucifer sounds like a proto-Jehovah or impossible and abusive parent or boss and so it must have been controversial. (When I used to work at a major TV news network, the motto was "Never make the same mistake once.") As for Lucifer's nobility, he's a fallen, i.e. tragic, angel: Milton's Paradise Lost and a large number of the dramas being streamed into our darkened minds are nothing without it.

[LA2]

7 hours ago, WillyM said:

 

Taylor Caldwell died in 1985.  Her book "Dialogues with the Devil" was written in 1967.

I never read that one, but I did once read Caldwell's book "The Devil's Advocate," written in 1952. 

My high school English teacher had suggested that those of us who were looking for a book on which to do a book report might want to read "The Devil's Advocate."  So I went to the local library, found Caldwell's book, wrote my report on it, and handed it in.

The teacher took one look at my report, came to my desk, and told me I'd gotten the author's name wrong.  I protested that I was sure I was right.

After he read my synopsis, he realized that the book I had read, though it had the same title, was a completely different book from the one he had recommended, which was written by Morris West in 1959, seven years after Caldwell's novel.  He had no idea that Caldwell's book existed.

I eventually read West's book as well.  I thought both of them were interesting.

Thanks for the good story. I look back upon some of my high school teachers with great affection. Recently found some super-8 film I shot during a 10th-grade trip to Gettysburg National Military Park led by a super-energetic history teacher who later formed a prominent modern dance group focused on ecological themes. It was fall 1970 or spring 1971--the same nexus of time covered by Apple TV+'s just-released doc series 1971 on music and American society. It lacks analytic depth or complexity, but the wealth of previously unknown behind-the-scenes footage of musicians is impressive and it tries to readjust some proportions in its coverage--for example, giving Marvin Gaye a much more prominent role in political music-making of the time than is usual.

Looks like it takes a lifetime to understand the historical and cultural context of one's growing up. I'm most of all grateful for having survived it somehow.

[WillyM]

On 5/22/2021 at 9:16 PM, Philip said:

I haven’t read Devil’s Advocate. I’ve read several Caldwell novels and liked them all even though a few read like soap operas.

do you recommend it?

Dialogues with the Devil Was astonishing, I couldn’t put it down. And it’s very creepy how noble Lucifer is. And his argument is entirely logical.

I read The Devil's Advocate during my sophomore year in high school, which would have been 1963-64, so my memory is hazy.

As I recall, it was based on the premise that the United States had become a totalitarian society, reminiscent in some ways of Oceania in George Orwell's 1984.  The protagonist was involved in an effort to bring the country back to its original ideals.

Taylor Caldwell was a conservative and I have the impression that she was very much opposed to the New Deal.  A couple of details that I remember from the book were that "The Star-Spangled Banner" had been replaced as the national anthem by a piece called "Democracy" (with lyrics which, of course, came from Caldwell's imagination) and that the thoroughfare in New York City that was once known as Sixth Avenue and later as the Avenue of the Americas was now called the Avenue of President Roosevelt.  It seemed as though Caldwell was suggesting that the United States could have been converted into a totalitarian state and that the Democratic Party in general and Franklin Roosevelt in particular would have been responsible for such a conversion.  By the time I read the book, more than a decade after it was written, that seemed like a pretty far stretch. 

But 1963-64 was the Cold War era.  Khrushchev was still in power.  I was still willing to consider the possibility that something awful could happen to the United States.  Maybe the Democrats wouldn't be responsible, but the Soviets might.  On that basis, the idea of a hero coming along to restore truth, justice, and the American way sounded pretty good to me.

It was a suspenseful book and it held my interest.  It might seem a little more dated now than it did when I originally read it.

I suppose a book review is taking a game thread a long way from where it started, but it's better than continuing to talk about how the Orioles blew a five-run lead.

[Philip]

15 minutes ago, WillyM said:

I read The Devil's Advocate during my sophomore year in high school, which would have been 1963-64, so my memory is hazy.

As I recall, it was based on the premise that the United States had become a totalitarian society, reminiscent in some ways of Oceania in George Orwell's 1984.  The protagonist was involved in an effort to bring the country back to its original ideals.

Taylor Caldwell was a conservative and I have the impression that she was very much opposed to the New Deal.  A couple of details that I remember from the book were that "The Star-Spangled Banner" had been replaced as the national anthem by a piece called "Democracy" (with lyrics which, of course, came from Caldwell's imagination) and that the thoroughfare in New York City that was once known as Sixth Avenue and later as the Avenue of the Americas was now called the Avenue of President Roosevelt.  It seemed as though Caldwell was suggesting that the United States could have been converted into a totalitarian state and that the Democratic Party in general and Franklin Roosevelt in particular would have been responsible for such a conversion.  By the time I read the book, more than a decade after it was written, that seemed like a pretty far stretch. 

But 1963-64 was the Cold War era.  Khrushchev was still in power.  I was still willing to consider the possibility that something awful could happen to the United States.  Maybe the Democrats wouldn't be responsible, but the Soviets might.  On that basis, the idea of a hero coming along to restore truth, justice, and the American way sounded pretty good to me.

It was a suspenseful book and it held my interest.  It might seem a little more dated now than it did when I originally read it.

I suppose a book review is taking a game thread a long way from where it started, but it's better than continuing to talk about how the Orioles blew a five-run lead.

I think you got the books mixed up, devils advocate is by Morris West the Taylor Caldwell book to which I referred is spiritual, and it is called “dialogues with the devil“ which is a series of communications between the Archangel Michael and Lucifer.